Episode #417: Interview with Tony Gill

Waaay back in Episode 22, Ron and Ed detailed the ideas behind Joel Waldfogel's book, Scroogenomics: Why You Shouldn’t Buy Presents for the Holidays. Waldfogel makes the case that the deadweight loss to the economy from gift giving, in 2007, totaled $12 billion, out of approximately $66.5 Billion spent (about 12%) and that we should all give cash rather than presents. In this episode, we spoke with Professor Tony Gill about his ideas around Rethinking Scroogenomics and some of his other writings.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio…(scroll a bit further to see what a bot came up with)

Segment one:

  • Political science, sociology, and economics? Tony wanted to be a lawyer for about 1 week, was interested in politics, and was interested in economics. That doesn’t sound TOO far fetched now that Tony Gill has shared his background with us.

  • Adam Smith called himself a moral philosopher. This makes sense for Tony given his interest in both economics and religion.

  • What was the trigger for Tony’s interest in the Austrian school of economics? Paraphrasing his response: Being interested in both religion and economics already makes you a bit of an outcast so the Austrian approach made some sense.

  • Tony is a proud member of the Mount Pelerin society. It’s founders include Friedrich Hayek, Frank Knight, Karl Popper, Ludwig von Mises, George Stigler and Milton Friedman. More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Pelerin_Society

  • Related to Scroogenomics, Tony Gill wrote an article called “Gift Giving Is Better for Society than Economists Think” and you can read it here https://www.aier.org/article/gift-giving-is-better-for-society-than-economists-think/

  • Gift giving creates deadweight loss. Yes. But if the economy is so efficient why is gift giving persistent for so long? This is the root of Tony Gill’s argument discussed on the show today.

Segment two:

  • You have to overcome a burden of trust in order to successfully trade. One of the ways we do this is by giving up a resource up front. Some would call this gifting which is really important for building trust in society.

  • Why do stores decorate for Christmas? They want to be a part of the community and are willing to invest resources to show their commitment. This could even be true of business owners who do not celebrate.

  • Sumptuary laws (taxes) are seen a lot throughout history. They are taxes on consumption above and beyond what is considered necessary such as fancy clothes or expensive food. Tony asks, “Is Wokeness the New Sumptuary Laws?” at this link: https://www.aier.org/article/is-wokeness-the-new-sumptuary-laws/

  • At a certain level of Patreon membership - Patreon.com/TSOE - you can get a shout out like Blake Oliver did! Check out Blake’s podcast and earn CPE credits for listening. https://earmarkcpe.com/

Segment three:

  • Inequality has been ubiquitous throughout society and is usually examined at a national level. Where you tend to see it at a much more salient level is locally…in your neighborhood and at your job, for example.

  • Paraphrasing from Tony today: While studying inequality at the national level can be helpful, rarely do we stop and look at people in their local neighborhoods and determine what they are doing to solve common problems.

  • “No, the Business Roundtable Did Not Repudiate Capitalism” from Tony Gill was discussed today during segment three. Tony mentioned that he is rethinking it a little bit but you’ll need to listen to the show for the details. https://www.aier.org/article/no-the-business-roundtable-did-not-repudiate-capitalism/

Segment four:

The bots are coming for us!

For a few weeks now, we have been experimenting with a new feature from Otter.ai. Many of you will know that some of the current AI solutions have caught Ron and Ed’s attention during the bonus episodes. We let Otter.ai loose on the audio version of this show and here is what it (he? she? they?) came up with:

  • Copyright claim on every episode. 2:33

  • Welcome to the show. 7:02

  • Anthony Gill’s bio. 8:43

  • What is the Mont Pelerin Society and how did it start? 14:36

  • Why do we give a diamond engagement ring? 21:00

  • Gift-giving as a way to generate discussion. 23:54

  • What are the sumptuary laws and how does Wokeness fit into that? 30:30

  • Anthony Gill’s thoughts on inequality in the US. 37:32

  • Where do you see inequality at the local level? 40:02

  • Trade is about human interaction and relations. 46:11

  • The role that religion is playing in the war in Ukraine. 51:54

  • We need to engage with people before transactions. 58:28