Entrepreneurship

Episode #591 Preview - Episode 591 - Revolutionary Roundup: John Adams, the Semiquincentennial, and a Few Asides

Ron and Ed turn their attention to the upcoming Semiquintcentennial, with a little theatrical flair thrown in from Ed and his turn as John Adams in 1776. Along the way, they reflect on the ideas, personalities, and historical drama surrounding America’s 250th anniversary—and what those themes might still teach us about leadership, liberty, and public life today. If time permits, they’ll also weigh in on a few timely developments in the accounting profession and the ever-fascinating world of pricing.

Join us every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT

  • You can watch us live at https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/live (the podcast is available just a few hours after the show airs live)

  • You can also chat with us during the live stream on your preferred social network. Say hello on Facebook, YouTube, X/Twitter, or LinkedIn

  • Prefer email? Shoot us a note at asktsoe@verasage.com

As always, please check our website for upcoming and previous show notes and recordings, use Twitter to find the show at @AskTSOE or find us on Facebook.

The Soul of Enterprise show hosts, Ron Baker and Ed Kless, are on X (the artist formerly known as Twitter) at @ronaldbaker and @edkless, respectively (and obviously).

Episode #590 - Security, Scale, and Trust: A Conversation with Summit’s Shannon Kaiser

As part of our new partnership with Summit, Ron and Ed welcome Shannon Kaiser, a technology leader whose career spans cloud infrastructure, cybersecurity, application hosting, and managed services. Shannon shares how Summit helps organizations navigate the increasingly complex world of IT while maintaining the security, reliability, and performance businesses depend on every day.

About Shannon Kaiser
Shannon Kaiser is General Manager of Application Hosting at Summit and a veteran technology executive with extensive experience in cloud infrastructure, cybersecurity, application delivery, and managed services. Having led engineering, operations, and technology teams throughout his career, Shannon focuses on helping organizations build secure, scalable environments that support business growth while reducing operational risk.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • Welcome to The Soul of Enterprise, Shannon Kaiser! Shannon is General Manager of Application Hosting at Summit. https://summithq.com/ 

  • What belief about business did Shannon hold in his 20s and has now completely abandoned? “That business was only about the dollars and cents.”

  • What do most accounting firm leaders consistently get wrong about technology? “That they think they can consume it as individual tools.”

  • What business or technology cliche would you like to see retired immediately? “That technology makes us more efficient”

  • What’s your approach to AI? Do you see this as utopia, or dystopia? “I think that the amount of productivity we will get from these tools will be amazing. […] We are not prepared for what is actually happening in real time today.”

Segment two

  • “Technology is a way to build trust, continuity, operationally, and the ability to continue to service.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

  • “The biggest misconception is that risk is a technology problem. Hollywood has taught us that there are hackers behind keyboards in dark rooms typing furiously at their keyboard.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

  • On why ransomware attacks are prevalent: “It isn’t the people per se. It’s the status quo and policy that the people are following and the lack of rigor in reviewing it.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

Segment three

Segment four

  • From Ed Kless on project management: “The number one reason for project failure is that very rarely is a project actually properly initiated.” 

  • From Ed again on project management: “Most people want to compress the planning process into a shorter time period because they want to get to execution. Then they execute. Then after that, there’s this really long phase called fix-it.”

  • A big THANK YOU to Shannon Kaiser for joining us today! Shannon is the General Manager, Application Hosting at Summit. Learn more at this link https://summithq.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #589 - Last Branch Standing: a conversation with Sarah Isgur

Ron and Ed welcom Sarah Isgur to discuss her book "Last Branch Standing," which explores the Supreme Court's role in American government, its counter-majoritarian function and its independence from partisan politics. Contray to popular belief, very few cases are decided along ideological lines and Sarah will emphasize the need to protect the court's independence and criticized Congress for failing to act on key issues. We will ask her about billing by the hour and red her thoughts on political strategy and the importance of aspirational goals in politics.

Sarah Isgur is lawyer, political analyst, and professional constitutional sparring partner, who has the ability to make Supreme Court procedure sound like a cross between stand-up comedy and a bar fight involving the Federalist Society. She’s a senior editor at The Dispatch and SCOTUSblog, co-host of one of Ed's favorite podcasts, Advisory Opinions with David French, and a survivor of many polical campaigns and the Department of Justice.

Her new and first book, Last Branch Standing: A potentially surprising, occasionally witty journey inside today’s Supreme Court is New York Times bestseller and currently #1 on Amazon in the Courts & Law category.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

  • Fun bingo fact about The Soul of Enterprise: “I ran against Ken Paxton for Texas State Senate in 2012 as a Libertarian, and Angela Paxton in 2022.” —Ed Kless

  • The Professional’s Guide to Value Pricing by Ron Baker https://www.amazon.com/Professionals-Guide-Value-Pricing-Ronald/dp/0156072246

  • On the billable hour: “It’s why I decided I couldn’t work at a law firm.” —Sarah Isgur

  • “If you really think about it, the billable hour is based on the labor theory of value….which is actually Marxism.” —Ed Kless

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #588 - Pricing Update: AI, Discounting, and the Future of Value

This week, Ron and Ed deliver a wide-ranging pricing update, exploring the latest thinking shaping both accounting firms and the broader business world. Drawing from recent articles, posts, and commentary, they examine how AI companies like GPT, Claude, and Perplexity are positioning and pricing their offerings, including the growing role of token-based pricing models and what they signal about the future of value measurement.

The conversation also dives into the dangers and unintended consequences of discounting, inspired by recent insights from pricing experts in the PPS community. Along the way, Ron and Ed connect these ideas back to accounting firms, professional services, and the practical challenges businesses face when trying to price for value in rapidly changing markets.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

  • Value Protection is Not Optional by Jon Hubbard https://www.boomer.com/post/value-protection-is-not-optional 

  • “Time is not a resource because you can replenish a resource.” —Ron Baker

  • On the billable hour: “Ron, have you ever sat at your desk and was just thinking about something? And didn’t have your hands on the keyboard actually doing something? Don’t we want our professionals to think?!!?!?” —Ed Kless

Segment three

  • Byron Johnson, a CPA in Canada, sent in a great note to the show about three-tier pricing. Ron and Ed talked about this during the start of the third segment.

  • Let's Get Real or Let's Not Play by Mahan Khalsa https://www.amazon.com/Lets-Get-Real-Not-Play/dp/1591842263 

  • Quote from the show today: “How you sell is indicative of how you solve” (attributed to Mahan Khalso)

  • On offering three tier pricing to customers: “When you’ve got to sit down and come up with your three choices, you are effectively thinking through competing with yourself. And that’s important.” —Ed Kless

Segment four

  • If this intrigues you, LISTEN to segment four of the show today: “How do you change a service into an experience? You customize a service, and then that turns it into an experience. And we think the best way to do that is with subscriptions.” —Ron Baker 

  • Shameless plug: Threshold has a transformation class for those wondering about turning a service into an experience. https://thresholdnow.com/ 

  • On confident pricing: “You are 2-3 times any of your competitors” “Huh, that’s odd, because usually it’s like 5-6 times.”

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #587 - Ron's Rummage: Clearing Ron's Stack of Stuff

In another installment of our fan-favorite miscellany series, Ron digs into the ever-growing stack of articles, ideas, trends, and observations he’s been collecting—and finally clears the deck. From developments in technology and AI to economics, business strategy, professional skepticism, and the occasional offbeat tangent, this episode is a rapid-fire tour through the topics that caught Ron’s attention but didn’t yet have a home of their own.

Along the way, Ron and Ed connect seemingly unrelated dots, challenge conventional wisdom, and share practical insights for entrepreneurs, accountants, and knowledge workers navigating a world changing faster than ever. Expect sharp commentary, unexpected connections, and plenty of classic TSOE banter in this wide-ranging conversation.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #586 - Convergence Is Here: What AI Means for Your Future with Greg Tirico

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ron and Ed welcome back Greg Tirico to explore the accelerating convergence of technology, especially AI, and its profound implications for professionals. Drawing on insights from the “Convergence 2026” report, Greg unpacks how traditional firm boundaries are dissolving as tech, talent, and capital increasingly intersect.

The conversation dives into what this shift means for knowledge workers, from evolving skill expectations to the redefinition of value in professional services. As AI reshapes workflows and client expectations, firms must rethink not only how they operate, but what they offer.

If you’re trying to understand where the profession is headed and how to stay relevant in an AI-driven world—this episode provides a clear, informed perspective on the forces shaping the future.

SHOW NOTES

There are 10 total convergences identified by the FTSG methodology. We don’t have time for all of them :) 

ONE: Human augmentation

In the past this was eyeglasses and vaccines

Today:

These devices are not for the mobility challenged. They are meant for the able bodied.

What if your company requires augmentation for extremely physical roles?

TWO: Unlimited Labor

In the past:

  • Gutenberg printing press

  • Ford assembly line

  • VisiCalc 

Today:

  • AlphaEvolve from DeepMind: Algorithms automatically derived from basic inputs

  • Quite obviously, AI Agents

“The next internet isn’t being made for you. It’s being made for Agents. Pretty soon we won’t be the interface between decisions and execution anymore.”

So what happens when agents collide with robotics?

THREE: Automated factories or “lights-out industrialism”

This isn’t retrofitting factories with robots. These are first principle designs. Think, Adam Smith’s pin factory. 

Unlimited labor inverts the idea that labor is the engine for growth

  • Scale without population

  • Output without wages

  • Production without people

Most datacenters employ fewer than 35 people. 

Will we see an economy with an increasing GDP AND a high level of unemployment? In other words, what do we call an economy that is thriving and has no use for you?

FOUR: Emotional outsourcing

In the past:

  • Therapists

  • Meditation

  • Family and friends

Today:

What about the shift of comfort and companionship from people to machines?

  • In 2014, Microsoft launched a chatbot called Xiaoice (wikipedia link)

  • Character.ai

  • In the Convergent Report presentation, Amy Webb used an AI generated video to manipulate feelings and didn’t tell the audience until the end.

FIVE: The Corporate Panopticon

In the past:

  • showing a passport at a border

  • swiping a credit card at a checkout

  • entering a password at login

Today:

  • Wi-Fi Sensing: Commodity Wi-Fi hardware can now be used as a room-scale physiological sensor. Systems like Pulse-Fi can estimate heart rates, respiration, and gait by analyzing how signals reflect off a body

  • Ambient Audio Context: Microphones in smart devices do more than listen for voice commands; they analyze background "acoustic signatures" like HVAC rhythms, traffic patterns, and room echoes to infer your exact location

  • Payment Metadata Analysis: Even without seeing itemized receipts, payment networks analyze transaction timing and vendor codes to infer highly personal details, such as pregnancies, chronic illnesses, or addictions

  • Biometric Signatures: Identity is verified through markers you cannot "leave at home," such as the way you hold your phone, your gait, or your thermal signature

    • You can reset your password. You cannot reset your biometric signature

“We traded China’s iron fist for Silicon Valley’s velvet glove—same surveillance, better branding.”

SIX: Living Intelligence

In the past:

  • Most systems have operated in three distinct phases: collect data, analyze what they’ve gathered, wait for humans

Today:

  • Sensors track biological signals, environmental conditions, and behavioral patterns in real time. 

  • Adaptive AI models interpret what’s happening. 

  • Then the system acts, adjusting insulin doses, rerouting shipments, tweaking production lines, without pausing for human approval.

MIT engineers have designed capsules containing biodegradable radio frequency antennas that can confirm when a pill has been swallowed. These biosensors address a

major health care challenge: patients failing to take medication as prescribed.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #585 - Conversations from the Chaminade Leadership Summit

In this special episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ron and Ed welcome a panel of speakers from the Chaminade Leadership Summit (CLS), an event focused on developing principled leadership and purposeful organizations.

Joined by Bro. Thomas J. Cleary and fellow summit speakers, the conversation explores the intersection of leadership, values, and organizational culture. Drawing from their diverse experiences, the panel discusses how leaders can foster trust, inspire accountability, and navigate complexity in today’s rapidly changing environment.

From practical leadership frameworks to personal reflections on mission-driven work, this episode offers insights for anyone looking to lead with clarity and purpose—whether inside a firm, a team, or a broader community.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • One of the best-known Marianist schools in the United States is Chaminade High School on Long Island. The school was founded in 1930 in Mineola, New York, at a time when the surrounding area was still largely farmland and undeveloped suburban land. The Marianist brothers opened it as an all-boys Catholic college preparatory school focused on academics, faith formation, discipline, and community.

  • The original Chaminade High School class was 130 students. Today, there are 62 classrooms and 1,700 students. 

  • Louis V. Gerstner Jr. is one of Chaminade High School’s most notable alumni, graduating with the Class of 1959. Gerstner is best known for becoming the CEO of IBM in 1993 during one of the company’s most difficult periods. At the time, many analysts believed IBM would need to be broken apart, but Gerstner led a major turnaround that is often considered one of the most successful corporate recoveries in business history. He shifted IBM toward integrated services and enterprise computing rather than just hardware manufacturing.

  • “What drives any institution is the culture within that institution.” —Brother Thomas Cleary, S.M. ’81

Segment two

  • The Chaminade Leadership Summit (CLS) is a relatively new leadership and professional development conference created by Chaminade High School on Long Island. The inaugural summit launched in 2025 as part of the school’s broader vision leading up to its 100th anniversary. https://cls.chaminade-hs.org/ 

  • The 2026 Chaminade Leadership Summit (CLS) theme is “Connected Leadership,” emphasizing authentic relationships, collaboration, and values-driven leadership in an increasingly interconnected world.

  • It’s hard to overstate the impact of the Chaminade Leadership Summit. CLS in the future MIGHT include small regional events and virtual options. You heard it here first :) 

Segment three

  • We are joined by the Chief Academic Officer of Chaminade High School. A Chief Academic Officer (CAO) is the senior leader responsible for the overall academic vision, quality, and performance of a school, college, university, or education organization.

  • If you have a kid or know anything about high school AP classes, this stat is amazing. At Chaminade High School last year 27 kids took AP Advanced Calculus. 26 out of 27 received a 5 on their AP test!

  • School AI is an example of an AI tool in use at Chaminade High School. And it really gets to how they are integrating AI where appropriate and using it to help guide the overall education of students. https://schoolai.com/ 

Segment four

  • Mr. Robert Paul '92 is the current principal of Chaminade High School in Mineola, New York, named as the 12th principal in the school's history. He took over the role after Bro. Joseph Bellizzi, S.M. stepped down in June 2024 following 25 years of service.

  • HSD = High Satisfaction Day. Ron and Ed touched on this during episode 173 https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/173 

  • The motto at Chaminade High School is “Fortes in Unitate” (Strength in Unity) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaminade_High_School 

  • A big THANK YOU to Chaminade High School and the Chaminade Leadership Summit for hosting Ed Kless and Ron Baker today. The podcast will be available in just a few hours, the show notes will be at TheSoulOfEnterprise.com on Monday, and a series of short videos will go out on YouTube next week.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #584 - Accrual Intentions: Interview with Alexis Kingsbury

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ed Kless and Ron Baker speak with Alexis Kingsbury about a rather audacious experiment: running an entire accountancy practice staffed almost entirely by AI.

The firm—Accrual Intentions—had eleven AI “team members” and one human: Alexis. What began as a curiosity about the real capabilities of AI quickly became something far more interesting. The AI team produced accounts, onboarded clients, and developed surprisingly human-like dynamics—personalities, accountability, even a kind of culture.

But the experiment also ran into limits, particularly around compliance and professional judgment. The result is Kingsbury’s new book, a fascinating mix of business experiment, comedy, and serious reflection on what AI actually means for professional services.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • Here is some background on our guest today, Alexis Kingsbury https://alexiskingsbury.com/#about 

  • “I started the world’s first, 100% AI accountancy firm. But it’s probably important to say from the start that it was very much set up as an experiment, arguably even a parody.” —Alexis Kingsbury

  • On the AI accountancy experiment: “I turned it into a book because I wanted to help other people go through the intellectual, but also emotional, journey that I went through.” —Alexis Kingsbury https://accrualintentions.com/ 

  • Meet the team behind the AI accountancy firm. Alexis is the only human and Grace Ledger (clever!) is the Managing Partner https://accrualintentions.com/#team 

Segment two

  • Great achievement for Alexis in 2025: “I’m incredibly proud (and still a bit stunned) to share that last night I was named Neurodiverse Entrepreneur of the Year at the Great British Entrepreneur Awards.” https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alexkingsbury_neurodiversity-entrepreneurship-adhd-activity-7396471129848193025-cm9W 

  • Regarding the book, Accrual Intentions, by Alexis Kingsbury….he has a review from a rather familiar person: “I loved it. A huge and important contribution. This is not a warning. It is a summons." — Ronald J. Baker https://accrualintentions.com/ 

  • Ron asked Alexis if he, the human in the loop, was always the bottleneck in the first 100% AI accountancy firm. The answer from Alexis? “Yes, absolutely.”

  • The conversation today about confidence (and being overly confident) is one of the most important lessons. The 100% AI accountancy firm from Alexis Kingsbury accidentally claimed it had professional indemnity insurance that didn’t exist, highlighting how confidently AI can invent information if not monitored carefully.

Segment three

  • “Everyone is about to become a manager. Not in the form of managing people in a corner offer. […] In terms of managing output, directing work and thinking about what’s the outcome I want.” —Alexis Kingsbury

  • The 100% AI accountancy firm created by Alexis came up with their OWN ideal client profile. One of the requirements? It must be a client that can communicate via email only because “we” can’t answer the phone

  • “The biggest sin in the economy today, in business today, is wasting your customer’s time.” —Ed Kless

  • Regarding AI: “It’s unfair to say it can’t do any innovation, because I think innovation is a spectrum.” —Alexis Kingsbury

Segment four

  • What’s a big mistake firms are making with AI right now? “It’s always been a good idea for any firm to document their business, to be clear on what their vision and values are, who their ideal customer is, what the process is for how they assess a get a new customer [and so on]. That becomes SUPER CRITICAL with AI.” —Alexis Kingsbury

  • I don’t think I could have said this better myself. Regarding AI: “This is a profoundly weird technology.” —Ron Baker

  • A big THANK YOU to Alexis Kingsbury for joining us today. The book, Accrual Intentions, is available today! Check it out here https://accrualintentions.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #583 - The AI Tools Changing Accounting: Fourth Interview with Hector Garcia

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ed Kless and Ron Baker sit down with Hector Garcia, one of the most recognizable educators in the accounting profession thanks to his hugely popular YouTube channel. Known for translating complex technology into practical insight, Hector joins the show to discuss the rapidly evolving ecosystem of AI tools for accounting professionals. The conversation moves beyond the hype to explore which tools are actually useful today, how AI is reshaping workflows, and what accounting professionals should be experimenting with right now if they want to stay relevant in an AI-augmented profession.

Artificial intelligence is everywhere in accounting right now. But separating the genuinely useful tools from the endless parade of demos, buzzwords, and vendor hype can feel like a full-time job. That’s why Ed and Ron invited Hector Garcia to the show.

Hector has become one of the most influential educators in the profession through his wildly popular YouTube channel, where hundreds of thousands of accounting professionals follow his explanations of emerging technologies, workflows, and software tools. His specialty is cutting through the noise and showing practitioners what actually works.

In this episode, Hector walks Ed and Ron through the latest generation of AI tools available to accounting professionals—what they can do, where they fall short, and which ones are worth experimenting with today.

But the discussion goes deeper than just tools. The trio also explores how AI is reshaping the role of the accounting professional, from automation of routine work to the emergence of new advisory opportunities.

For anyone trying to keep up with the pace of technological change in the profession, this episode offers a clear-eyed look at what matters—and what doesn’t.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

  • From Hector: The comments on this video about reaching limits are funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_LBECIQQqs 

  • Regarding tax information in AI tools: “ChatGPT and Claude, they tend to go to tangential sources, non-authoritative sources.” —Hector Garcia 

  • “Should people just use the API?” —Ed Kless. Hector’s answer was hilarious! “API.com is not something people are going to be able to use.”

  • “The solution right now is for all firms to build their own custom software. And they create their own customized needs around the UI, so the AI uses the things that they need them to.” —Hector Garcia

Segment three

  • “Taking care of oneself is the one thing you cannot delegate.” —Hector Garcia

  • How does Hector think about the word TRANSFORMATION? “To make a significant change in which you cannot go back. A lot of us seek that.”

  • “I did not know what it felt like to be a father until my daughter was born. [Regarding business transformations as a comparison], our best approach is to say we help you transform. We are just short for words. I don’t think we have the language.” —Hector Garcia

  • “I’m in love with the idea of being a numbers guy; of being the numbers Sherpa for my clients.” —Hector Garcia

Segment four

  • What’s the latest and greatest on AI, Hector? Opus 4.7 (the models are getting better and better), OpenAI came out with a competitor to Claude Cowork, also Dispatch in the Claude app

  • But I don’t code, Hector. Why should I use Claude Code? “Everything in your computer is code. You’re working in code. That means the lowest common denominator here is code.”

  • Something else Hector is excited about just launched today. It’s called Claude Design https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-design-anthropic-labs 

  • A big THANK YOU to Hector Garcia for joining us today. His YouTube channel has HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of subscribers. Are you one of them? https://www.youtube.com/c/HectorGarciaCPA 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #582 - Agencies After AI: Reinvent or Decline - Fifth interview with Tim Williams

Ron and Ed welcome back strategy expert Tim Williams to explore a hard truth: AI is not just a new tool for professional firms, it is a structural shock to their traditional business model.

For decades, most firms have relied on time-based billing, headcount leverage, and labor-intensive processes. But when AI compresses project time and automates execution, what happens to a model built on hours? Tim argues that professional firms — from ad agencies to law firms — must rethink not just how they work, but how they price, position, and define value.

This conversation will dive into why AI accelerates the decline of cost-plus thinking, why intellectual capital is the real asset, and how professional firms can redesign their economics before the market does it for them. While Tim’s particular expertise is in the advertising/marketing business, the principles and practices he teaches apply to professional firms across the board.

If your revenue model depends on selling time, this episode may feel slightly uncomfortable. That’s the point. The future of the professional business won’t be determined by how much AI they adopt, but by whether they have the courage to change the way they get paid.

SHOW NOTES (AI GENERATED AS WE GRACIOUSLY ALLOWED GREG TO TAKE PTO)

  • AI is accelerating a major shift away from the billable hour toward outcome-based and value-based pricing models

  • Agencies must transition from selling effort and outputs to selling outcomes and business transformations

  • “Results-as-a-Service” is emerging as a new pricing paradigm enabled by AI-driven accountability and analytics

  • AI dramatically reduces time required for strategic work, shifting value from execution to thinking and problem-solving

  • Four agency value models were outlined: Busy by Design, Scaling with Strain, Expertly Undervalued, and Distinctly Scalable

  • The most successful firms (“distinctly scalable”) productize expertise into repeatable solutions and decouple revenue from headcount

  • Custom “scope of work” thinking keeps agencies trapped in labor-based pricing and limits scalability

  • Most professional services work is actually repeatable (known problem/known solution), enabling standardization and packaging

  • AI is pushing agencies back into strategic advisor roles as execution becomes automated and commoditized

  • Large global firms (e.g., major holding companies) are now publicly committing to outcome-based pricing models

  • Subscription and recurring revenue models (analytics, reporting, dashboards) are key to future agency stability and valuation

  • Agencies that build intellectual property and scalable solutions can command significantly higher valuations

  • AI enables smaller, leaner firms (even solopreneurs) to compete with large agencies using advanced tech stacks

  • The future agency model may split into two layers: AI-driven execution platforms and high-value strategic advisory services

  • Despite ad avoidance, highly targeted and relevant advertising (e.g., social platforms) proves the power of data-driven personalization

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #581 - Every Decision You Make: Second interview with Tim Naddy

This week, we welcome Tim Naddy, CFO of the Savannah Bananas—a team that has redefined what it means to create value for fans (and, not incidentally, built a wildly successful business doing it). But this conversation goes well beyond yellow tuxedos and sold-out stadiums.

At the center is Tim’s book, EDYM: Every Decision You Make, a deceptively simple premise that turns out to be anything but: every choice—large or small—carries weight, compounds over time, and ultimately shapes both outcomes and identity.

We explore how this philosophy plays out inside an organization famous for breaking every conventional “rule” in baseball. From pricing and fan experience to internal culture and leadership, Tim shares how intentional decision-making—not spreadsheets alone—drives extraordinary results.

Along the way, we challenge the notion that financial leadership is about control and compliance, and instead reframe it as stewardship of choices, trade-offs, and consequences.

Because in the end, every decision you make… makes you.

If you think being a CFO is about reporting the past, this episode might just convince you it’s really about designing the future.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

  • “Our job as CFOs is to make sure that the math works. But in addition to that, we also have to be the best storytellers on the planet because what comes into our office are a bunch of different rivulets of all these different things that need to be managed. What comes out of our office needs to be a consistent message — a consistent framework — so people can trust what’s coming out of our office.” —Dr. Tim Naddy of the Savannah Bananas

  • THIS is why people love the Savannah Bananas: “We are always talking about enhancing the fan experience. So what can we do to help fans and remove friction points?” —Dr. Tim Naddy of the Savannah Bananas

  • Dr. Tim Naddy’s new book, EDYM (Every Decision You Make), teaches you to think like a CFO: understand the numbers, protect your cash, and make smarter calls so your business (and dreams) actually survive. https://www.amazon.com/EDYM-Every-Decision-You-Make/dp/B0GSSND5Q3 

  • “At the end of the day, numbers have to make sense. There also is the other side of it. There’s so much more value that the number is not really telling you.” —Dr. Tim Naddy

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #580 - The Business of Civic Leadership: Interview with Tim Riordan

Ron and Ed welcome Tim Riordan, president of BIPAC (Business-Industry Political Action Committee), for a conversation at the intersection of business, civic engagement, and public policy. BIPAC works to educate and mobilize the business community around the political process — equipping leaders with the tools and insight needed to participate thoughtfully and effectively in American democracy.

Tim brings decades of experience helping organizations navigate the often-murky waters of public affairs, grassroots advocacy, and leadership development. In a time when politics and business are increasingly entangled, sometimes constructively, often chaotically, he offers a perspective grounded in education, participation, and long-term institutional thinking.

As a Soul of Enterprise guest, Tim fits squarely into the show’s deeper inquiry: What responsibilities accompany enterprise? How should leaders engage the broader culture without being consumed by it? And how do we preserve institutions that allow free people to flourish?

This conversation explores not partisanship, but participation and why the health of the republic depends in part on whether business leaders choose to show up.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • Welcome Tim Riordan! First question: What is BIPAC? A community built on member and partner success. Delivering Educational Programs, Curated Resources, and Political Analysis. https://bipac.org/ 

  • Founded in 1963, BIPAC is widely considered one of the first political action committees representing business interests in the U.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIPAC 

  • The stated mission of BIPAC is to advance economic growth by engaging private-sector employees as voters and advocates. In other words, BIPAC helps companies activate employees politically, not just lobby directly. https://bipac.org 

  • Tim brought back a great quote today on the show: “Congress is dysfunctional, except for my member.”

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #579 - Leading a Modern Advisory Firm: Interview with Matt Armanino

Ron and Ed welcome Matt Armanino, CEO of Armanino Advisory, for a conversation about what it really takes to lead a modern professional services firm in an era of relentless change. Under Matt’s leadership, Armanino has pushed beyond the traditional boundaries of accounting — building advisory depth, embracing technology, and reimagining how firms create value for the businesses they serve.

In this episode, Matt shares his perspective on scaling culture, navigating growth without losing identity, and balancing innovation with institutional stability. They explore what leadership looks like when your firm is no longer “just” an accounting practice but a multidimensional advisory organization — and what it means to build something designed to endure.

As a Soul of Enterprise guest, Matt embodies the show’s core inquiry: how do we elevate the profession from compliance to contribution? This conversation goes beyond tactics to mindset — and what the next generation of firm leadership must understand if it hopes to thrive.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • When thinking about advisory services, Matt had a great quote at the beginning of the show: “Most of us want to be a professional service. To serve other people.”

  • “Everyone one of our clients has a dream, something they want to accomplish.” —Andy Armanino, founder of Armanino

  • On private equity in the industry, “The trend to a more modern capital structure allows firms to make much bigger bets towards the future. Towards transformation.” —Matt Armanino

  • “Firms that are positioning themselves to be winners are the ones that are most agile right now, and are questioning things. I think that’s where Armanino sits.” —Matt Armanino

Segment two

  • Did PE cause Armanino to be inwardly focused? No. “Our entire strategy for where we’re investing is centered on the client. On the needs of the client.” —Matt Armanino

  • “The type of core middle market companies that we serve, that see us as a key relationship partner, actually value investments in technology.” —Matt Armanino

  • KPMG demanded a discount from its auditor for AI cost savings https://www.afr.com/companies/professional-services/kpmg-demanded-a-discount-from-its-auditor-for-ai-cost-savings-20260210-p5o117 

  • “If our clients perceive that we are the best firm to work with, because we are the only firm and they can’t get it from anyone else, then guess what? There’s a lot less focus on price. It’s a focus on value.” —Matt Armanino

Segment three

  • How does the shift to value pricing manifest itself at Armanino? “Making a shift to a pricing change? That is very simple. Sitting down and investing on the front end in your relationship and having a value-based discussion with a client. That’s important.” —Matt Armanino

  • “If you are only monetizing the value of what you do based on increments of time then, as you reduce time, you effectively reduce your pricing and impact.” —Matt Armanino 

  • As an example, Matt cited managed services and had this to say: “That’s an example of where you see the core external trends in the marketplace becoming a virtuous element of a recurring service model.” —Matt Armanino

  • “At the core of who we are—the core purpose of our firm—is the desire to be the most innovative and entrepreneurial firm. […] That is why our business was founded.” —Matt Armanino

  • Built to Last : Successful Habits of Visionary Companies by James C. Collins and Jerry I. Porras https://www.amazon.com/Built-Last-Successful-Visionary-Essentials/dp/0060516402 

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #578 - Stop Managing Minds Like Hands: Knowledge workers aren't paid for hours!

In this episode, Ron and Ed explore a distinction that Peter Drucker saw decades ago but many organizations still struggle to grasp: knowledge workers are fundamentally different from service workers — and managing them the same way is a category error.

Drucker famously wrote, “The most valuable assets of a 21st-century institution (whether business or nonbusiness) will be its knowledge workers and their productivity.” That statement isn’t aspirational — it’s diagnostic. Knowledge workers own the means of production: their minds. They cannot be supervised into excellence, scheduled into creativity, or measured into insight.

Ron and Ed unpack what truly differentiates knowledge work: autonomy over time, responsibility for outcomes rather than tasks, the necessity of continuous learning, and the reality that effectiveness — not efficiency — is the governing metric.

If we continue to treat accountants, consultants, and other professionals as if they were interchangeable labor inputs, we shouldn’t be surprised when engagement drops and innovation stalls. The future belongs to organizations that understand what Drucker meant — and are willing to build differently because of it.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

  • “Take away my people, but leave my factories, and soon grass will grow on the factory floors. Take away my factories, but leave my people, and soon we will have a new and better factory". —Andrew Carnegie

  • “It was the rise of the knowledge worker where it made possible the idea that you could employe somebody in a job that didn’t exist before.” —Ron Baker

  • Great questions from Drucker for knowledge worker effectiveness:

    • What is your role?

    • What should it be?

    • What should you be expected to contribute?

    • What hampers you in doing your job and should be eliminated?

    • How could you make the greatest contribution with your strengths?

    • What results have to be achieved to make a difference?

    • (And several others in segment three of the show today)

Segment four

  • After action reviews are definitely a part of this conversation but we have done a show or two on that already. Here’s the original show on AARs. Episode number 15! https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/15 

  • We have a LARGE number of guests coming up including Matt Armanino, Tim Riordan, Tim Williams, Hector Garcia, and Alexis Kingsbury! Do you like what you hear? Please take 10 seconds to rate the podcast so that other people can find us. https://ratethispodcast.com/tsoe 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #577 - The Profitability Breakthrough: 11th conversation with Joe Woodard

For the eleventh time (because apparently we’re not done yet), Ron and Ed welcome back Joe Woodard to talk about The Profitability Breakthrough, the live workshop they’ll be leading together in May.

This episode goes beyond theory and into architecture. What actually drives profitability in an accounting firm? Is it pricing? Positioning? Capacity? Client selection? Or is it the uncomfortable truth that most firms are solving the wrong problem entirely?

Joe unpacks the core ideas behind the workshop — why incremental tweaks won’t move the needle, how firms get trapped in activity instead of outcomes, and what it takes to engineer a genuine breakthrough rather than another marginal improvement.

If you’ve ever wondered whether profitability is a math problem or a mindset problem, this conversation might make you slightly uncomfortable — which is usually where the good stuff starts.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

  • Ron asked Joe about skim, penetration and neutral pricing with respect to his daughter’s trip to the Manhattan TurboTax store. Here is more info (in general) about these pricing methodologies https://www.culturehive.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Three-Approaches-to-Pricing-Strategy-1.pdf 

  • The Profitability Breakthrough is a workshop for Accounting Firms coming up in May. Ron, Ed, AND Joe will be running the workshop. More information at this link https://thresholdnow.com/woodard 

  • The combination of Ed, Ron, and Joe brings an extremely unique set of perspectives. Joe brings a 20 year ground game in working with individual practitioners and Ron + Ed have been doing pricing research since…….what…..the 1920s? :)  The Profitability Breakthrough is a 3-day event in Las Vegas in May. More information here https://thresholdnow.com/woodard 

  • “There’s nothing so practical as a good theory.” —Ron Baker as quoted by Ed Kless

Segment three

  • “Doctor’s don’t have scope creep.” —Ron Baker

  • Joe mentioned Client Advisory Services during the chat today. I don’t want to assume everyone understand this fully. Here is “4 reasons why CAS offers a compelling career path” from Jean Zick, CPA at this link https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/newsletters/academic-update/4-reasons-why-cas-offers-a-compelling-career-path/

  • “If you want to stay fiercely independent, join an alliance.” —Joe Woodard on how firms can stay independent while not offering an unnecessary grab bag of services to all customers

  • “What could I have saved them if I had been their tax advisor the last 2 years? That’s the key question.” —Joe Woodard

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #576 - America at 250 - Part 1: Illiberal Temptations and Enduring Truths

As America approaches its 250th anniversary, Ron and Ed examine three essays that converge on a single question: What actually sustains a free society?

Drawing on Dan McLaughlin’s warning to “Resist the Temptation of Woodrow Wilson”  , they explore the perennial allure of concentrated executive power and the dangers of confusing “solidarity” with strongman governance. From there, they turn to Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s argument that religious liberty was not an afterthought but the Founders’ first freedom, a theological inheritance that constrained power long before modern political theory attempted to. Finally, they consider Yuval Levin’s case for America’s extraordinary institutional durability, a constitutional system designed to frustrate ambition, balance factions, and outlast the apocalyptic mood of any given generation.

Together, these essays raise an uncomfortable but vital tension: liberty requires limits; power must be restrained; and durability depends less on innovation than on fidelity to first principles.

Ron and Ed ask whether America’s strength lies not in bold executive action, nor in nostalgic lament, but in a constitutional architecture sturdy enough to survive our worst instincts — including our periodic desire to abandon it.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four


Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #575 - Update on the Direct Primary Care Model: Interview with Dr. Paul Thomas

On this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, we welcome back Dr. Paul Thomas, founder and CEO of Plum Health Direct Primary Care. Since his last visit, Plum Health has expanded to multiple locations, added new physicians, and continued scaling a model that puts relationships—not insurance paperwork—at the center of care.

We’ll get an update on that growth and explore the broader Direct Primary Care (DPC) movement: How fast is it growing? Why are employers and patients embracing it? And is it truly reshaping how healthcare is delivered in America?

We’ll also dig into the regulatory hurdles that still stand in the way—HSA eligibility, state-level rules, and what policy changes could accelerate adoption.

If you care about innovation, subscription models, or the future of healthcare, this conversation is one you won’t want to miss.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • Current state of the DPC movement: 2,919 DPC practices in 50 states. The Direct Primary Care movement is growing! This is a small but mighty group and they are having an out-sized impact on the overall healthcare industry.

  • Regulatory hurdles became much easier in 2025. Congress allowed for businesses to use pre-tax dollars to fund direct primary care services for their employees. Previous to that, it had to be post-tax dollars.

  • We’ve often thought about DPC being great for an individual or freelancer. But a large employer group with 1,000 employees can also take advantage of the DPC business model for their employees which makes healthcare more accessible and convenient.

  • Dr. Paul has a great joke about his DPC practice and what they can / cannot do for you: “If you cut your finger, call me. If you cut your finger off, please go to the emergency department.”

Segment two

  • The average wait time for a DPC doctor is 3 minutes from your arrival.

  • Dr. Paul has grown from 1 to FIVE OFFICES during the course of his business. Scaling a direct primary care practice can and is being done. https://www.plumhealthdpc.com/ 

  • As a result of that growth, Dr. Paul now looks to groups who are self-funded with 500-600 patients in the Detroit or mid-Michigan areas. In addition, he is building near-sight offices based on employee concentrations for specific businesses.

  • “If you’re smart enough to finish med school, gritty enough to get through residency, and passionate enough to have chosen a primary care specialty then you have all the ingredients you need to be a successful DPC doctor and a successful entrepreneur.” —Dr. Paul Thomas, PlumHealth DPC

Segment three

  • Dr. Paul has grown Plum Health to the point where he is now the Chief Medical Officer in the practice and handles the organizational management, culture, and education of the doctors in the practice. 

  • Dr. Paul has a strong vision for Plum Health: We believe healthcare should be affordable, accessible, and excellent for everyone.

  • Dr. Paul mentioned his StartupDPC website during the show today. Here is the link: https://www.startupdpc.com/ 

  • Is AI having an impact on Dr. Paul’s business. Yes, of course. For example, their EMR system allows for the recording of conversations with patients which then makes it easier to create a medical note. The doctor spends some time editing the note and the time savings compounds over the day, week, month, and year.

Segment four

  • Today I learned that some states like Maine have integrated DPC into the primary state healthcare marketplace.

  • During World War II, the federal government introduced wages and price controls. In an effort to continue attracting and retaining employees without violating those controls, employers offered and sponsored health insurance to employees in lieu of gross pay. This was a beginning of the third-party paying system that began to replace direct out-of-pocket payments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_health_care_reform_in_the_United_States 

  • GREAT point by Dr. Paul today: The use of AI for managing his business can help INFORM his decisions. That’s an important distinction.

  • A big THANK YOU to Dr. Paul Thomas for joining us today. Check out his DPC at this link: https://www.plumhealthdpc.com/ 



Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #574 - One Thing: February 2026

Inspired by A.J. Jacobs’ appearance on Russ Roberts’ EconTalk, Ron and Ed have continued their annual tradition of keeping a “One Thing” journal—capturing a single idea each day that sparked insight, curiosity, or reflection. Often it’s a quote; sometimes it’s a question, a concept, or a surprising turn of phrase.

In One Thing 2026, they once again open their journals and share a curated collection of the thoughts that shaped their year. The result may feel delightfully eclectic, but as always, it’s packed with insight—nuggets of wisdom drawn from their reading, listening, and lived experience. Think of it as a guided tour through the ideas that lingered long enough to be written down—and shared.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four

  • The last line In Salman Rushdie’s Victory City (2023): “Nothing endures, but nothing is meaningless either”

  • "We want radical change in search of stability" —Peter Block

  • "The only free cheese is in the mouse trap" (Ukrainian: Безкоштовний сир буває тільки в мишоловці) is a common Eastern European proverb, heavily used in Ukraine, meaning that nothing of value is truly free, and too-good-to-be-true offers often hide dangerous traps or hidden costs. It is the regional equivalent of "there's no such thing as a free lunch". 

  • "Does anyone have any questions for my answers?" —former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger

  • “Be the person the room who wants to make things easier” —unattributed

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #573 - The Pricing Briefing for 2026

In this pricing update, Ron and Ed take the pulse of what’s happening right now in the world of pricing. From shifting market conditions and inflation narratives to how organizations are responding—or failing to respond—to economic signals, they cut through the noise to focus on what actually matters. The hosts explore common misconceptions, highlight emerging trends, and offer a reality-based perspective on how pricing decisions are being made in today’s uncertain business environment. As always, this isn’t about tactics alone—it’s about thinking clearly, acting intelligently, and restoring pricing to its proper strategic role.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #572 - The Transformation Economy: Third interview with Joe Pine

We’re joined by Joe Pine on January 31, just days before the release of his long-awaited new book, The Transformation Economy (February 4, 2026). For longtime listeners, this conversation will feel both familiar and bracingly new. Familiar because we have spent the last two years exploring, applying, and occasionally interrogating the very ideas Joe now brings together in this book. New because Joe pushes the argument further and with more precision than ever before.

Building on his seminal work on experiences, Joe makes the case that economic value has moved decisively into a new domain: transformations. Not experiences staged for customers, but transformations designed with them—where the explicit aim is lasting change in who the customer is or what they are capable of becoming. That shift, Joe argues, carries profound implications not just for strategy, but for accountability, pricing, and purpose.

This episode is not a book report. It’s a rigorous conversation between fellow travelers who share a vocabulary but are still very much in productive tension. We explore where transformation fits (and doesn’t) in real organizations, why so many firms mistake motivation for method, and why treating transformation as optional is itself a category error.

If you’ve been following our ongoing work on transformation, this episode serves as both a capstone and a catalyst. If you’re new to the idea, consider this your initiation—fair warning: once you see the economy this way, it’s rather difficult to unsee it.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

  • From Joe Pine at the start of the show: From the agrarian economy to the industrial economy to the service economy to the experience economy. Now consumers want transformative experiences.

  • “Customization is the antidote to commoditization.” —Joe Pine

  • “All transformation is identity change. […] Transformations last through time.” —Joe Pine

  • “Commodity goods and services are time well saved. Experience is time well spent. Transformation is time well invested.” —Joe Pine

Segment two

Segment three

  • Fun fact: Joe Pine used to travel with a gumball machine. Why? When a kid puts a quarter in a gumball machine, the transaction is seldom about the actual gumball so much as it is about watching the colored candy spin down and around the machine until it comes out at the bottom.

  • Why invest in your employees? Because they are just going to leave as they get better, right? The retort to that line of thinking is, “Well, why keep employees that aren’t getting better?”

  • What is one of the data points that tells Joe the transition to the Transformation Economy is working? “I know of hundreds of companies today that charge for outcomes. There should be thousands, tens of thousands.” —Joe Pine

  • Are there any sectors of the economy where there are not likely to be a transformation? “Every time I did that with experiences, someone would correct me.” —Joe Pine

Segment four

  • There is much more context to this quote but here is a snippet to trigger your curiosity: “Abraham Maslow got it wrong. He had, at the top of his pyramid, the self actualization, finding the meaning in life, transcendence…..When meaning is at the bottom of the pyramid.” —Joe Pine

  • A big THANK YOU to Joe Pine for joining us today. The Transformation Economy will be out in 4 days! You can pre-order it now and also check out Joe’s substack at this link https://transformationsbook.substack.com/ 

  • Also check out Strategic Horizons at https://strategichorizons.com/integration/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.