Economics

Episode #486 Preview: Hearth of a Cheetah — Second interview with Magatte Wade

Ron and Ed are thrilled to have Magatte Wade back on the The Soul of Enterprise to talk about her new book, Heart of a Cheetah: How we have been lied to about African poverty and what that means for human flourishing. Magatte Wade is a bold Senegalese entrepreneur and unflinching prosperity activist, determined to shape the destiny of her African homeland. In her riveting memoir, she challenges Africans to redefine their narrative, casting aside imposed inferiority to reclaim their innate brilliance. This is not a recounting of poverty and politics. It's an indictment of a world that views Africa as nothing more than a colonial chessboard, with charity acting as the block that keeps Africans stuck.

About Magatte Wade

Magatte Wade is the Director of the Center for African Prosperity at Atlas Network, the leading organization of African free-market think tanks. She was listed as a Forbes “20 Youngest Power Women in Africa,” a Young Global Leader by the World Economic Forum, and a TED Global Africa Fellow.

Join us this Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT

As always, please check our website for upcoming and previous show notes and recordings, use Twitter to find the show at @AskTSOE or find us on Facebook.

The Soul of Enterprise show hosts, Ron Baker and Ed Kless, are on X (the artist formerly known as Twitter) at @ronaldbaker and @edkless, respectively (and obviously).

Episode #485: Glorious Gallimaufry

Well, it has happened again, Ron and Ed's stacks of stuff are bursting beyond their britches, so it is time to trot out some alliterative alchemy to rightly rectify the seriously sticky situation. Okay, enough already. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment One

Segment Two

Segment Three

Segment Four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #484: Scaling New Heights — Sixth interview with Joe Woodard

Ron and Ed welcome for an unprecedented sixth time, Joe Woodard. As always this will be a wide-ranging conversation but likely topics include: plussing your offering, why people don't value your offering and what to do about it, the future of CAS, and, maybe, just maybe, Apple Vision Pro.

About Joe Woodard

As an author, consultant, business coach, and national speaker, Joe has trained over 150,000 accounting and business professionals in areas of practice development, changing technology trends, strategic consulting, and how to maximize the use of accounting software in their practices. Joe founded Woodard Events, LLC (aka Woodard® a training and resource organization for accounting professionals that provides education, community, and coaching offerings through onsite training events, virtual training events, and intensive, coach-led practice advancement courses. Joe is the host of one of the world's leading training conferences for accountants and bookkeepers called Scaling New Heights®. For every year since 2014, Joe has been recognized by Accounting Today as one of the Top 100 Influential People within the accounting profession.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment One

  • What does CAS mean to Joe? What does the A stand for? In over 50% of firms surveyed, the A stands for accounting. However, it will end up being Advisory because that is how the AICPA defines it.

  • “Client Accounting Services and Client Advisory Services are two very different business models. One of them is McDonal’s and one of them is Mortons.” —Ed Kless

  • To keep the Mortons/McDonald’s analogy going: “We need to eliminate McDonald’s hamburgers and only sell Mortons. Leave the accounting to H&R Block…who is now also doing bookkeeping.” —Joe Woodard

  • Here’s a thought from the conversation with Joe today: Smaller accounting firms are going to form networks, also known as co-firming, as they continue to shift to CAS

Segment Two

  • We don’t value utilities in Western economies. It has nothing to do with affordability. We value unique and differentiated experiences compared to that thing you have to buy (like a gallon of gas).

  • Joe has reimagined pricing tiers. We are not clearly defining the distinction in the products/services we are selling. Category 1 is accounting, category 2 is controller, and 3 is FP&A inclusive of controllership and accounting.

  • “A brain surgeon requires more knowledge to do his job than a nutritionist but the nutritionist can be transformative.” —Joe Woodard

  • Great thought from Joe today when thinking about new customers: Start with the end in mind. Find a very specific way you can increase a client’s wealther and remember that wealth is not always financial. 

Segment Three

  • From the conversation with Joe today, plussing the offering is bigger than just, “I’m giving you a higher level of value.” Plussing is first and foremost…subscription based

  • Loyalty programs are nice if people want to be able to earn their way into an experience. But you should also be able to buy your way into it. D23 from Disney is a great example of this.

  • Oculus vs Apple Vision Pro: The app ecosystem is still causing Joe to spend more time on the Oculus. It’s clear to him Apple just isn’t there yet.

  • Joe mentioned that his Apple Vision Pro persona is creepy. This isn’t a picture of Joe but it does compare a journalist to their Apple Vision Pro persona. 

Segment Four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #483: Subscription Economy Update — March 2024

Join Ron and Ed as we dive deep into the dynamic world of subscription business models. With the landscape constantly evolving, we'll bring you the latest insights and happenings that are shaping the future of subscriptions. Whether it's the introduction of new technologies, shifts in consumer preferences, or innovative strategies companies are adopting to retain subscribers, we've got it covered. Stay ahead of the curve and understand what these changes mean for businesses and consumers alike. Don't miss out on this insightful update – tune in to stay informed!

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

Segment two

  • For the second segment, Ron and Ed are talking about the article titled, “Follow the dots: Why a customer-centric world requires a demand-led strategy” - More here: https://www.zuora.com/subscribed/why-a-customer-centric-world-requires-a-demand-led-strategy/ 

  • “The consumer isn't a moron; She is your wife” —David Ogilvy

  • 1/2 How big does a business or personal transformation really need to be? Don’t over-exaggerate it in your mind. It’s doesn’t need to be a complete transformation. Take the small steps first.

  • 2/2 For example, with a tax practice customer: “I used to think of you as someone who did my taxes. Now I see you can also provide guidance and insight to help with better planning.”

  • Transformations that are not MAJOR transformations but are still important….what are they called? You are HONING (think of sharpening a knife blade)

  • ...many businesses claim today to be customer-centric, they still operate like they [...] can create a product, package it up, and sell it in the fashion most convenient for them — and expect consumers to eat it up. https://bit.ly/3TXSoQX

Segment three

Segment four

  • Where can you find more work from Joe Pine and his book The Experience Economy? He’s working on his next book and is sharing his work in progress on Substack https://transformationsbook.substack.com/ 

  • Rate this podcast at RateThisPodcast.com/TSOE. If you write a review we are happy to read it on the air - good, bad, or indifferent

  • Geraldine Carter — a show sponsor and listener — is working on a new book called Down to 40 Hours. Watch her website closely for more info https://geraldinecarter.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #482: Subscription-based legal services - Interview with Scott Reib

Ron and Ed are joined by Scott Reib who is known as “America’s Legal Coach.” For the last two decades, Scott is a firm believer that legal advice doesn’t have to be expensive or intimidating. His passion lies in changing the way we view legal counsel: from “emergency” situations to “primary care provider” relationships. Scott is shifting this perspective via Access Plan, his groundbreaking subscription-model legal service, where he helps clients understand their legal questions before they find themselves in a legal emergency.

About Scott Reib

Scott Reib (pronounced “Reeb”) is known as America’s Legal Coach. He’s the official Zig Ziglar Small Business Lawyer, a Ziglar Legacy Certified Trainer, and he has over 20 years of experience as an attorney. For the last two decades, Scott has been helping business owners, entrepreneurs, coaches, and service providers to “shatterproof” their businesses and succeed in the professional world.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • Scott was in sales during the beginning of his career. He ran into a contract issue and “did what any sane person would do” - he went to law school.

  • Scott had a vision in 2012 for a different way to practice law. An on demand system with a set monthly fee so that they could ask any question they want without worrying about the bill. The access plan was born https://www.reiblaw.com/access 

  • Even though Scott didn’t have a partner in the firm that he “needed to convince” about a subscription billing plan, he did have stakeholders. Mistakes were made and lessons were learned around the idea that he could have communicated the subscription idea better

  • People coming back to Scott that made a mistake they could have avoided was his motivation for moving to a subscription model. They thought they couldn’t afford him and didn't ask but ended paying large amounts to “win” in court.

Segment two

  • Typically you call your lawyer when your house is on fire (so to speak). Scott wants to shift your thinking to a more proactive role as your lawyer.

  • Scott had a mantra a few years ago that will resonate with many of us, “The billable hour is dead. Lawyers just don’t know it yet.”

  • “Lawyers are paid not to finish if they are charging by the hour.” —a Verasage colleague

  • One of Scott’s biggest advantages: In running a business you are constantly being presented with contracts to sign. You could be making a mistake and, with a subscription based lawyer, there is no additional fee to have a contract reviewed. 

Segment three

Segment four

  • What are some of Scott’s main KPIs as a subscription lawyer? New members each month, number of paused plans, cancellations, MRR, and projections for the year

  • What are some of the technologies Scott uses to run a subscription law firm? Asana for project management, Zapier for connecting various platforms, Slack for internal comms, and Sync as a cloud server

  • Is the first 90 days of a subscription business critical? Of course. Scott is focused on making sure that his law firm “WOWS” customers in the first 30 and 90 days. Re-education of customers around new processes is definitely a hurdle. 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #481: Private Equity in Accounting — Michael Breit, CEO, EisnerAmper

Join Ed and Ron for our interview with EisnerAmper’s Chairman and CEO, Michael Breit, for a discussion of private equity in accounting, including how EisnerAmper’s changed its governance structure. We'll also discuss the advantages and disadvantages of these alternative structures, and how private equity will impact the future of firms.

About Michael Breit

Michael Breit is Chairman and CEO of EisnerAmper LLP (attest firm), and a Partner at Eisner Advisory Group LLC. With more than 35 years of public accounting experience he has held leadership positions throughout his career at EisnerAmper, including Vice Chair –Strategic Relationships, Regional Managing Partner, Partner-in-Charge of the New York office, and Audit and Assurance leader. Prior to joining EisnerAmper, Michael was a Partner at a Big 4 accounting firm. Michael has extensive Securities and Exchange Commission experience and has been involved in the initial public offerings of several premier broadcasters and cable TV operators. He has participated in numerous due diligence efforts relating to the formation of programming ventures and acquisition of sports franchises. Michael has also led cable TV defalcation investigations, serving as an expert witness in several arbitration and litigation matters. In addition, he possesses significant retail experience. Over the years, Michael has led or participated in numerous leadership programs including an Executive development and leadership training program at the Harvard Business School. Michael served a two-year residency in the national office of a Big 4 accounting firm where he monitored the profession’s standards setting bodies and followed a wide range of accounting and reporting issues. Michael is a frequent guest speaker on sports and entertainment issues on national and regional radio and television programs.

Use these AI generated show notes to follow along with the audio:
(Our social media guy was on PTO — he asked us and filed the request in triplicate)

Accounting and Private Equity Conversation

The meeting involved a conversation between Ed, Michael, and Ron, focusing on private equity and accounting. Michael, who is the chairman and CEO of EisnerAmper and a partner at Eisner Advisory Group, shared his professional journey and experiences in the accounting industry. The participants also addressed technical issues such as microphone settings and adjustments to audio inputs. Towards the end, the discussion shifted to the topic of private equity and accounting.

Private Equity Investment in Accounting Firms

Ron and Michael discussed the attractiveness of accounting firms for private equity investment, with Michael highlighting the steady cash flow, low risk, and year-round revenue. They also explored Michael's firm's deal with a private equity firm, Eisner Amper, which was structured through an alternative practice structure to navigate independence concerns. Michael shared the advantages of this partnership, such as increased technology investment and access to capital and know-how. He also noted the recruitment benefits, as the deal offered a new narrative for potential hires. Looking ahead, Michael mentioned the potential for a future monetization event, but was uncertain about the specifics of the exit strategy.

Technology and Independence in Auditing

Michael, Chairman and CEO of Eisner Amper, LLP, discussed the company's plans to leverage technology for innovation, particularly in auditing. He mentioned the development of a new audit methodology called the Dynamic Audit Solution Ordaz, which incorporates AI components and aims to move away from a traditional checklist mentality. Michael also mentioned the implementation of a new ERP system, SAP, and the company's commitment to continuous auditing. He addressed concerns about maintaining independence in the auditing process, emphasizing the company's strict guidelines to ensure independence and independence in appearance. Additionally, he discussed the company's growth and the benefits it brings to their clients, such as greater resources, technology advancements, and a wider range of services.

Accounting Talent Attraction Strategies

Ed and Michael discussed the challenges faced by the accounting profession in attracting new talent. Michael suggested that adjusting the 150-hour credit rule and increasing starting salaries could help attract more students. They also discussed the potential of allowing for career changes into the accounting profession, especially for those without an accounting degree. Michael emphasized the importance of addressing concerns about compensation to retain talent. The conversation concluded with a discussion about the potential benefits of private equity involvement in the accounting sector, with Michael highlighting the importance of maintaining a strong firm culture.

Private Equity, AI, and Accounting Standards

Ron and Michael discussed the influence of private equity on accounting firms, including an increase in billing and realization rates. Michael explained that private equity raises the bar for firms to perform at their highest level and expects results, but also provides support and guidance. They also touched on the use of AI in auditing, with Michael mentioning that their CIO is leading a significant AI initiative. The topic of employee stock ownership plans (ESOPs) came up, with Michael revealing that it was not considered by Eisner but recognized as a beneficial strategy by other firms. They also discussed the state of the auditing profession, with Michael emphasizing the importance of maintaining a high standard of excellence. Lastly, Michael shared his advice for young individuals considering a career in accounting, highlighting the diverse nature of the profession and the opportunities for advancement.

Sports, Business, and Family: A Lively Discussion

The conversation primarily revolved around sports, with a particular focus on the Islanders. Ed and Michael discussed Michael's 2018 blog post about the future of sports, which included predictions about UFC's potential growth. They also shared personal anecdotes about family members involved in sports. The discussion then shifted to the business of sports, with topics such as esports, sports gambling, streaming, virtual reality, and the potential impact of the Covid-19 pandemic. They also explored the possibility of individual team subscriptions and the future of 360-degree cameras in stadiums. The conversation concluded with a light-hearted debate on the designated hitter rule in baseball.

Upcoming Show, Accounting Conferences, and Political Speculation

Ed, Ron, and Michael discussed their upcoming show and possible guests, including a suggestion to use 360-degree cameras for recording sports games for VR viewing. They also shared plans to attend accounting conferences and engaged in a wide-ranging conversation about politics and the upcoming election. They speculated about potential vice presidential candidates, expressed concerns about the extremism of the candidates emerging from the primary system, and discussed the potential of Aaron Rodgers and Rand Paul being considered for the position. The conversation concluded with concerns about RFK's views on the role of government in business.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #480: Leveraging Logic, Unleashing Magic — The Art of Subscription

In an engaging email exchange between Ron and Reilly Newman, a Brand Scientist, Reilly shares his insights and challenges while reading the book "Time's Up!" He is particularly interested in applying the subscription business model to his brand creation business but faces difficulties in transitioning from a consultancy approach to a subscription-based service. Through their conversation, they explore creative solutions and strategies, including the idea of offering a "brand transformation program" and incorporating ongoing value into subscription packages. Join Ed and Ron as they discuss these ideas and how they apply to professional firms.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • Reilly Newman helped prompt the idea for this show with an email exchange between him and Ron. He wrote a really beautiful looking book called “Brandy”. Check it out here https://www.amazon.com/Brandy-Wisdom-Attaining-Successful-Brand/dp/B0C9S7Q7Q8 

  • Reilly is a brand scientist and Ed thought this was interesting because your brand is not a static thing. It requires a constant investment which is an interesting perspective when thinking about a subscription business.

  • Our Verasage colleague Tim Williams (@timwilliamsicg) often talks about the difference between magic and logic. Check this link out: https://www.ignitiongroup.com/propulsion-blog/magicians-logicians-professional-services 

  • Hey. Guess what you can do at RateThisPodcast? Yep. You can rate the podcast in 15 seconds RateThisPodcast.com/TSOE

Segment two

  • Let’s talk about the smile curve. It’s an important mental model that we have talked about before. Check out the image

  • We discussed the smile curve WAAAAAAAAAY back on episode 18 with pricing expert Dr. Reed K. Holden https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/18 

  • “The easier it is to quantify, the less it’s worth.” —Seth Godin

  • Did you know we have a Patreon channel available with bonus episodes where everything is commercial free? Yep. https://www.patreon.com/TSOE/posts 

Segment three

  • What does your “A” stand for in CAS? Ed and Ron tied this back to leveraging the logic and unleashing the magic in segment three of the show today. 

  • Skim, penetration and neutral pricing are an important part of the conversation today. Fortunately, we have an episode on the three — and only three — pricing strategies https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/128 

  • Important point from Ed today: Penetration pricing requires that you are careful about the design of your offering. Strip away the high value stuff so that it can be offered later.

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #479: Growth Grief - Guarding against the glitz and glamour of scale

Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of a cancer cell, not a sustainable business. Yet, the myth of growth and market share persists. "Grow market share! You must be scalable!" We are told over and over, and profits will follow. "Horse hockey!" as Col. Sherman T Potter would say. This week Ron and Ed will share their thoughts on why this pernicious myth does far more damage than good especially in the professional service space.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Growth vs. Scalability: A Debate

Ron and Ed discussed the value of growth and scalability in businesses. They challenged the conventional wisdom that bigger is always better, citing examples of successful companies that chose to stay small. They pointed out that market share does not necessarily lead to profitability, and that growth can be a strategy, not a goal. The discussion was based on their disagreement with the widely held belief that businesses should always aim for growth and scalability.

Small Business Growth Strategy

Ron and Ed discussed the growth strategy of a firm, O'Byrne and Kennedy, and how they successfully reduced their customer base to focus on advisory services. They emphasized the importance of profitability over volume and shared experiences of companies that failed due to unprofitable growth, such as Starbucks. The conversation also highlighted the advantages of staying small, including the ability to pivot, build profit, and avoid bureaucracy. They encouraged listeners to question the growth mindset and consider the benefits of staying small.

Balancing Growth and Personal Life: A Conversation

Ron and Ed discussed the importance of balancing personal life with business growth. They highlighted the potential of "Mompreneurs" and the success of a company that increased prices without losing customers, resulting in a 9x increase in company valuation. Both agreed on prioritizing value over growth for sustainable business practices. They also discussed the success of Dr. Paul Thomas, suggesting that scalability was due to strategic addition of more doctors. However, they also emphasized the potential problems of company growth, including increased complexity and strain on relationships. They ended the conversation discussing the potential issues of over-investing in a company and the potential benefits of constraints driving innovation.

Embracing Constraints for Growth

Ron and Ed discussed a book titled "A Beautiful Constraint," recommended by a guest on their show. They talked about the concept of embracing constraints as opportunities for growth and improvement, using examples from a podcast they listened to and a book they considered. They also mentioned a third party who picked up their show on LinkedIn and a podcast about customer tax.

Small Company Advantages in Tech Era

Ron and Ed discussed the advantages of being in a small company in today's world. Ron emphasized that the benefits of being in a small company are far greater now due to advancements in technology and changes in government regulations. They also highlighted the potential of crowdfunding to generate significant funds. Ed pointed out that technology has made accounting more efficient and accessible for small companies. They both agreed that being a one-person outfit doesn't mean having to be alone and that many small business owners work with a portfolio of people and organizations. They concluded by expressing their opposition to occupational licensing and regulation.

Small Business Advantages and Customer Satisfaction

Ed clarified the author of a previously mentioned book, "Unreasonable Hospitality," and discussed its content. He and Ron had a conversation about the advantages of smaller businesses in customer retention and acquisition, criticizing larger businesses for neglecting retention. They also touched on the importance of measuring customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction, and cash flow. The conversation explored the concept of market share, the lifespan of businesses, and the balance between personal passion and economic viability. The segment concluded with a focus on strategy and not feeling pressure to rapidly scale a business.

Value Creation vs Market Share: Focus on Future Potential

Ed and Ron discussed the importance of value creation over market share for business success. They emphasized the need for businesses to focus on the future potential and innovation rather than just static market share. The conversation also touched on the potential loss of human interaction in technology-dependent businesses and the importance of face-to-face interactions. Towards the end, they discussed the concept of a long-lasting company as exemplified by many Japanese businesses. They also emphasized the importance of pursuing one's passions in business. Furthermore, they announced the upcoming guests for their show, including discussions on private equity in accounting and subscription-based legal services.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #478: The Future of ERP Systems — Second interview with Aaron Harris

What does the future hold for accounting/ERP systems? There is no one better on the planet to answer this question than Aaron Harris, Sage's Global CTO. Aaron is responsible for Sage’s technology strategy and software architecture. He has more than 20 years of high-tech engineering experience in business applications and software development strategies. Previously a founding leader of Sage Intacct, acquired by Sage in 2017, Aaron led the company’s product vision and technology direction, establishing Sage Intacct as the innovation leader in cloud financial management solutions.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • Aaron Harris was primarily responsible for coding Intacct which we know today as Sage Intacct. I’m sure there are more than a few fans out there in the TSOE world.

  • Generative AI has Aaron’s attention today. For example, month end close means submitting timesheets and approving expense reports. Nobody likes it. Making it easier to interact with software will come from Gen AI.

  • “Large language models have the capability to not just perform a task but to understand a complex set of instructions. And, they know how to write code.” —Aaron Harris

  • In Aaron’s view “getting rid of the close” in accounting requires software to automate tasks and means we need to give ownership of the orchestration to the AI where there is a strong relation between the AI and people. 

  • “It doesn’t matter what you automate, a human is always accountable.” —Aaron Harris

  • “The death of the monolith” is something Aaron referenced today. It’s a complex topic but easiest to think about in the shift away from a single point of interaction and towards more and more APIs.

 Segment two

  • As an early advocate of SaaS, Aaron thinks it will take some time for business models to evolve. This is in contrast to the 37Signals editorial Ron and Ed talked about in prior weeks.  

  • A summary from Aaron: The value our customers derive from business applications in the future is from the value of automation and not from the ability for a customer, for example, to process an invoice. 

  • "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." —Alan Kay

  • AI is going to bring the learning cost to zero and make software more accessible for everyone. “Everybody is more productive when they are given access to Gen AI.” —Aaron Harris

  • “AI is going to get adopted very rapidly because developers see the opportunity to work in completely different ways that are almost magical.” —Aaron Harris

Segment three

  • “Teens in AI” is a group that Aaron is VERY passionate about. They bring machine learning experts and data scientists into communities and hold hackathons with teenagers, especially girls. Check them out here https://www.teensinai.com/ 

  • “A lot of the work that goes into building solutions based on large language models is balancing all of the data and building mechanisms to detect and root out bias.” —Aaron Harris

  • The excitement was so spectacular around AI that the takeup is not quite as fast as one might think. Aaron talked about this concept with Ed during segment three of the show today.

  • One of the “bets” that Aaron has been making with people: Within 6 months, we will start to see AI agents using our (Sage) products.

Segment four

  • What about quantum computing? Does Aaron Harris think it is right around the corner or will be 30 years away…forever? He genuinely doesn’t know but is excited about recent progress in the field.

  • One of the pillars of the Alan Turing institute is “AI for good” which is why Aaron and the team at Sage are having conversations with them about working together https://www.turing.ac.uk/

  • Atlanta is the heart and soul of Sage in North America which is why Sage has partnered with Morehouse college. More here: https://www.sage.com/en-us/news/press-releases/2023/04/global-software-firm-sage-and-morehouse-college-partner-to-expand/ 

  • The death of the monolith is one of Aaron’s long term predictions. He also thinks we will have our own AI assistants that have access to our financials, travel services, and other important date. 

  • A big THANK YOU to Aaron Harris, the Sage Global CTO, for joining us today to share some of his views on technology and even make some predictions about the future. Learn more about Sage here: https://www.sage.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #477: The Time Tax — The Crime of Stealing Customers' Time

Inspired by an article by former TSOE guest B. Joseph Pine II, and James H. Gilmore, Ed and Ron explored how businesses--including professional firms--can stop wasting the customer's time. Strategies for helping customers save time, and invest it well were explored.

Unlike our show notes editor, artificial intelligence doesn’t file for PTO. With that, here are some links referenced in the show and the AI generated notes:

Show links

AI notes

Professional Services and Time Tax Discussion

Ed and Ron had a wide-ranging discussion about various topics, from their allergies to a radio show they were preparing to host. They also discussed a colleague, Greg, who was planning a camping trip. The discussion touched upon an article about hourly billing, which Ed agreed to review. The concept of "time tax" was introduced, which refers to wasting customers' time. Ed and Ron discussed the idea in the context of professional services and linked it to the work of Joe Pine and James Gilmore, authors of "The Experience Economy". They concluded that professional firms can provide serial transformations, adjusting their services based on the customer's needs. The importance of not wasting customers' time in business operations was also highlighted, with examples from UPS and Amazon. There was some confusion towards the end regarding a planned break, which was clarified during the meeting.

Time Spent With Clients: Pricing and Experience

Ed and Ron engaged in a wide-ranging conversation about charging for time spent with clients. They explored alternative pricing options, such as contractor, consultant, and coach. The discussion also touched on the importance of providing a memorable experience, with Ron emphasizing that experiences offer time well spent and can lead to increased customer value and spending. They contrasted Uber and Airbnb, noting that while Uber saves time, it doesn't necessarily provide time well spent. They also discussed the role of customer service and hospitality in various sectors. Towards the end, they emphasized the importance of time management in business operations and the concept of time well invested. It goes beyond simply spending time with customers but involves enriching their lives and helping them achieve their aspirations.

Pricing, Value, and Technology Discussion

Ron and Ed discussed Joe Pine's upcoming book and his previous appearance on their show. They also talked about a LinkedIn post about Ron's book and an article about the potential impact of General AI on legal pricing. The conversation then shifted to the challenges associated with evaluating the value of tasks in their firm and the need to shift the focus to the customer's perception of value. They discussed the pricing model of their company's services and the role of technology in this process. Ron suggested that the issue lies not with the pricing model but with the business model, particularly the billable hour. They also discussed Apple's new product, the Vision Pro, and its pricing strategy.

Shift to Outcomes and AI Pricing Strategies

Ron and Ed discussed the shift from a fee-for-service mentality to a focus on outcomes and professionalism. They highlighted an upcoming talk by Aaron Harris, Global CTO of Sage, on AI and pricing strategies. The conversation also touched on the concept of paid interaction, suggesting that audiences might pay for experiences rather than just time. 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #476: The Conservative Futurist — Interview with Jim Pethokoukis

America was once the world’s dream factory. We turned imagination into reality, from curing polio to landing on the Moon to creating the internet. But as we moved into the late 20th century, we grew cautious, even cynical, about what the future held and our ability to shape it. Too many of us saw only the threats from rapid change. What caused this to happen? More importantly, what can we do to change it? Ron and Ed are thrilled have someone who has squarely addressed these questions. Jim Pethokoukis is the author of The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised. Jim is a senior fellow and the DeWitt Wallace Chair at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), where he analyzes US economic policy, writes and edits the AEIdeas blog, and hosts AEI’s Political Economy podcast. He is also a contributor to CNBC and writes the Faster, Please! newsletter on Substack.

About Jim Pethokoukis

James Pethokoukis is a senior fellow and the DeWitt Wallace Chair at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), where he analyzes US economic policy, writes and edits the AEIdeas blog, and hosts AEI’s Political Economy podcast. He is also a contributor to CNBC and writes the Faster, Please! newsletter on Substack. Before joining AEI, Mr. Pethokoukis was the Washington columnist for Reuters’s Breakingviews, the opinion and commentary wing of Thomson Reuters. Earlier, he was the business editor and economics columnist for US News & World Report. Mr. Pethokoukis is the author of The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised (Center Street, 2023). He has also written for many publications, including the Atlantic, Commentary, Financial Times, Investor’s Business Daily, National Review, New York Post, the New York Times, USA Today, and the Week. His numerous broadcast appearances include CNBC, CNN, Fox Business Network, Fox News Channel, MSNBC, and PBS. A graduate of Northwestern University and the Medill School of Journalism, Mr. Pethokoukis is a 2002 “Jeopardy!” champion.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • Jim endeared himself to Ron and Ed immediately by guessing the correct origin of President Reagan’s quote at the beginning of the show. File “Moscow University” away for the next TSOE trivia night.

  • Upwing vs downwing economies: Everything these days is left vs right. While useful, they are not the most important way to look at the world. Instead upwing vs downwing is the best way. In effect, do you think we can do better?

  • 1955 - 1973 was broadly the post war decades that were very upwing economies. There was a lot of confidence in technology and its ability to create a better world.

  • So why does Jim define 1973 as the end of the upwing economy? It featured a marked slowdown in productivity growth due to a number of factors: an oil shock, the stock market fell, and a nasty recession. 

  • With respect to the crowding out of talent: The share of spending done on government research vs business used to be 2/3 government. It has flipped around now and it’s important to remember that, broadly, they are doing different things.

Segment two

  • Is innovation overall slowing down? That which is lightly or zero-regulated has been moving very fast. It’s gotten hard in spaces like high speed rail, a reactor, a highway, new housing, and so on. 

  • From Jim during segment two of the show today: When you look at what people expected the economy to do in 60s and 90s, “If they were to see the economy today, they would ask what happened?”

  • This should motivate you to CREATE. From Jim today, “If we do not have the ability to imagine a better future, why take a risk? Why even try?”

  • Bad ideas equal bad policies which equals slow growth. Jim wants to BREAK this cycle and talks about it in his book, The Conservative Futurist https://www.amazon.com/Conservative-Futurist-Create-Sci-Fi-Promised/dp/1546005544 

Segment three

  • “Beware the Precautionay Principle” (episode 284) was a show Ron and Ed did right before the pandemic. Jim introduced Ron/Ed to the Proactionary Principle. In effect, taking no risk is the biggest risk of all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactionary_principle 

  • “At worst, AI is a technology only as good as computer+internet. But it could be something more! It will make us wildly more productive in all aspects of our life. If that’s the case, we are talking about the ability to accelerate scientific research across the board.” —Jim

  • “People are focusing on the most mundane potential applications of this technology (AI). You have literally Superman, a super research assistant, who can run through every possible combination in every field of every human endeavor.” —Jim

  • On AI and it’s ability to get better, Jim says, “AI is the worst today it’s ever going to be.”

Segment four

Bonus note

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

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Episode #475: Punditry Punt

Unfortunately, our Guest fell ill, and could not join us, but don't worry pros play hurt, so Ron and Ed have called an audible, and will be punting to opine on some stuff in the stacks.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • We start today with “Something happened to business software.” — the opening line from Jason Fried of 37Signals as he introduces a new product pricing model, ONCE. https://once.com/  

  • Here are pricing details on the first product under the ONCE model from 37Signals. It’s Campfire (their group chat offering) https://once.com/campfire 

  • From the ONCE offering Jason Fried says, “The post–SaaS era is just around the corner.” Well, “I doubt it Jason” was Ron’s response. 

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

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Episode #474: The Jones Act - Interview with Colin Grabow

On this episode Ron and Ed welcomed Colin Grabow of the CATO Institute's Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies to talk about the Jones Act (aka Merchant Marine Act of 1920) which regulates maritime commerce in U.S. waters and between U.S. ports, oh, and, makes stuff more expensive for all of us while benefitting a select few. You will learn the main reason why food and other sundry items are more expensive in Hawaii and Puerto Rico; why the Northeast US imports natural gas from Russia instead of getting it from the US; and many more insanities.

[Snarky Editor’s Note] Some day, this episode will be obsolete because Congress will take action and repeal the Jones Act. You can check if Congress has taken action by visiting HasCongressRepealedTheJonesAct.com

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

  • “I’m gonna go to China, and I’m gonna get these jobs from China and bring ‘em back to America. For what, so iPhones can be $9,000? Leave that job in China where it belongs … I wanna wear Nikes, I don’t wanna make those things. Stop trying to give us Chinese jobs.” —Dave Chappelle

  • Here’s probably the MOST absurd outcome due to the Jones Act: Cattle fly first class to Hawaii. Folks, I couldn’t make that up if I tried and Colin wrote a piece on it: https://www.cato.org/blog/jones-act-fleet-high-costs-limited-capabilities 

  • The Jones Act was waived for 10 days after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico. That’s the most positive development we can provide in an attempt to #EndTheJonesAct https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/28/us/jones-act-waived.html 

  • So if the Jones Act is so ridiculous then why is it not being challenged? “Concentrated benefits and diffused costs.” —Colin Grabow

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

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Episode #473: I Have a Right! Do you?

What does it mean to say "I have a right" to something? In this thought-provoking episode, Ron and Ed delve into the distinct realms of negative and positive rights, exploring how they shape our understanding of individual liberties and societal obligations. Join us as we unravel the philosophical, practical, and even business implications of these two concepts, challenging preconceptions and fostering a deeper appreciation for the complexities of rights discourse.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

Segment two

  • An example of positive rights from Trevor’s article: “In 2009, under Massachusetts’s ‘universal’ health care system, 31,000 legal immigrants had their state-subsidized health insurance scaled back in order to counter budget shortfalls.” https://fee.org/articles/is-health-care-a-human-right/ 

  • What does compossibility mean? Don’t worry, I had to look that one up too. Compossibility is a philosophical concept that refers to the ability or possibility of coexisting.

  • At some point you will find yourself on the other side of government policy. This is one of Ed’s arguments against Executive Orders.

  • Ron mentioned Ayn Rand’s book, Capitalism, The Unknown Ideal. Here is a link: https://aynrand.org/novels/capitalism-the-unknown-ideal/ 

Segment three

  • Positive rights do exist in the mind of the Libertarian but only after you have a contract. Once you have a contract then there are positive rights that can be expected.

  • Here’s a fun thought experiment around rights: Does an accountant have a right to not perform his/her duties for a business or person that they think might be a cheat?

  • The Second Bill of Rights or Bill of Economic Rights was proposed by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on Tuesday, January 11, 1944 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights 

  • The second bill of rights included topics such as an Adequate income for food, shelter, and recreation, Farmers' rights to a fair income, Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies, Decent housing, and Adequate medical care

Segment four

  • “Liberty is the absence of coercion and freedom is a choice.” —Peter Block

  • The right to a trial by jury in the Constitution is a positive right. There are a few, but not many, other positive rights in the Constitution. Most are negative rights.

  • This is a heavy show so we are going to wrap it up on a light note with a discussion on this article. “Why the Ethics of ‘Would You Kill Baby Hitler?’ Are More Important Than You Probably Think” https://fee.org/articles/why-the-ethics-of-would-you-kill-baby-hitler-are-more-important-than-you-probably-think/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

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Episode #472: Best Books of 2023

In the second of our annual beginning of the year episodes, Ron and Ed recap their best books of 2023. Many listeners consider this the "most expensive" episode of the year as their anti-libraries tend to grow while listening. All books discussed are listed below in the show notes.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • Before we get started on books, here’s a quote from Charlie Munger: “In my whole life, I have known no wise people (over a broad subject matter area) who didn't read all the time — none, zero.”

  • Ed’s number 5 book is Social Justice Fallacies by Thomas Sowell - https://amzn.to/48wZDnN - From the book, “Stupid people can cause problems but it requires a genius to cause a catastrophe.” 

  • Ron’s number 5 book is While Time Remains: A North Korean Defector's Search for Freedom in America https://amzn.to/48ybL7W 

  • From Ron’s number 5 book, “There is a reason why the great books of Western civilization are all banned in dictatorships.”

Segment two

  • Ed’s number 4 book is Goldratt’s Rules of Flow by Efrat Goldratt—Ashlag -  https://amzn.to/3TTDrzJ. “This book is going to have a long term impact on my thinking.” —Ed Kless

  • Ron’s number 4 book is Capitalist Punishment: How Wall Street Is Using Your Money to Create a Country You Didn't Vote For by Vivek Ramaswamy https://amzn.to/3O2rQut 

  • Ed’s number 3 book is Redaction by Titus Katharine and Reginald Dwayne Betts - https://amzn.to/3vrvxDm. It’s an art/poetry book and Reginald Betts has appeared several times on EconTalk

  • Ron’s number 3 book is The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin https://amzn.to/3vA5VV7. Rick Rubin is a music producer (editor’s note: …and the reason the Beastie Boys exist)

Segment three

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

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Episode #471: 2023 — The Year in Review

During this annual favorite Ron and Ed look back on the good, the bad, and the ugly of 2023 including their favorite episodes, news events, pop-culture, business trends, and in memorium.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

Segment two

  • Also in 2023, we lost James Buckley - older brother to William. He was a distinguished US senator, Federal Judge, and Cabinet Member. He is 1 of only 45 people to serve in all 3 branches of the US government. 

  • Joe the Plumber passed away in 2023. He famously challenged President Obama on taxes on 2008. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/28/joe-plumber-dead-obama-campaign 

  • We also lost Elinor Otto (October 28, 1919 – November 12, 2023), an American factory worker who was an original "Rosie the Riveter". She built airplanes for over a half-century, and spent many years working for Boeing

  • We also lost Shane McGowan in 2023 - lead singer of The Pogues. Here are a few of their greatest songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jbdgZidu8 

  • Others mentioned on the show today that we lost in 2023: Matthew Perry, Juanita Castro, Rosalynn Carter, Charlie Munger, and running back Jim Brown

Segment three

  • According to Chartable, our top shows of 2023 are 5) episode 446 4) episode 442 3) episode 445 2) episode 448 1) episode 444. Just visit TheSoulOfEnterprise.com slash episode number to visit any episode directly.

  • According to our website stats, our top shows are 2023 are: 5) episode 459 4) episode 434 3) episode 435 2) episode 450 1) episode 452. Just visit TheSoulOfEnterprise.com slash episode number to visit any episode directly.

  • Ron loves the Tony Gill episode, ESPECIALLY the poem at the end of the episode. Folks, you’ve got to hear this. https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/417 

  • Ron was really touched by the interview with Dr. David Alfrey. Here is the direct link: https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/426 

  • The Essentials of Strategy was a phenomenal episode. Ron mentioned this as one of his favorites in 2023: https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/427 

  • According to YouTube, our most popular episodes of all time are interviews. They are 5) Matthew Stewart 4) Thomas Sowell 3) Tyler Cowen 2) Donald Hoffman 1) Rory Sutherland https://www.youtube.com/@askTSOE 

Segment four

  • And the winner is….BOTH the Oxford word of the year and American slang word of the year is….. RIZZ (don’t ask me. Go ask a teenager)

  • How about another 2023 American slang word: Stan… “I guess you can say I’m a Stan. I stan Taylor Swift (sustained fan or longtime fan)”

  • Cap is another 2023 American slang word. “You had dinner with Beyonce??? That’s cap.” (Lie or deceive)

  • Another slang word for 2023: Rotting… “Stay in bed. Play on social media. You are rotting for the day.” 

  • Ed has some 2024 predications to close out the show: Biden will not be the Democratic nominee. AI will continue to be incredibly hyped…and useful. Bitcoin will pass 100k

  • Ron has a few 2024 predictions as well: Jimmy Lai faces a perilous future and China might make a move on Taiwan

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode Reprise: Encore Interview with Tony Gill

Waaay back in Episode 22, Ron and Ed detailed the ideas behind Joel Waldfogel's book, Scroogenomics: Why You Shouldn’t Buy Presents for the Holidays. Waldfogel makes the case that the deadweight loss to the economy from gift giving, in 2007, totaled $12 billion, out of approximately $66.5 Billion spent (about 12%) and that we should all give cash rather than presents. In this episode, we will speak with Professor Tony Gill about his ideas around Rethinking Scroogencomics and some of his other writings.

About Tony Gill

Anthony Gill (Ph.D. UCLA 1994) is professor of political science at the University of Washington and an adjunct professor of sociology at the UW. He is also a Distinguished Senior Fellow at Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion, a research affiliate at the Mises Institute (Auburn, AL), a frequent mentor at the Institute for Humane Studies, and is currently nominated for membership in the Mont Pelerin Society. He specializes in the political economy of religion, religious liberty, and is currently dabbling in the economics of culture. He is author of two books — Rendering unto Caesar: The Catholic Church and the State in Latin America and The Political Origins of Religious Liberty — and a bunch of articles and stuff in places like the American Journal of Political Science, Comparative Political Studies, Rationality & Society, and Public Choice.

Normally, you would see info here about joining us live. This is a pre-recorded episode while Ron and Ed enjoy a well deserved break.

As always, please check our website for upcoming and previous show notes and recordings, use Twitter to find the show at @AskTSOE or find us on Facebook.

The Soul of Enterprise show hosts, Ron Baker and Ed Kless, are on X (the artist formerly known as Twitter) at @ronaldbaker and @edkless, respectively (and obviously).

Episode #470: Holiday Hodgepodge

For their last show of 2023, Ron and Ed cleaned out their stacks of (business and economic related) stuff. It was a fast-paced conversation that makes it hard to listen on double speed!

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

Segment two

Segment three

Segment four

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #469: The Art of Humor in Business — Interview with Greg Kyte

This is Greg's fifth appearance with Ron and Ed. Some of them incognito. (We'll let you try to figure which is which.) The topics are not scripted, but we assure you jocularity will ensue.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one

  • Once a year, we host Greg Kyte on the show. In his words, Greg is the annual subscription guest of The Soul of Enterprise. If you don’t know him, you might recognize his voice from our commercials.

  • Two years ago, Greg started “Oh My Fraud” - a podcast with Caleb Newquist. Never heard of it? Not likely but just in case here is the link https://ohmyfraud.com/  

  • What has Greg learned from doing the podcast “Oh My Fraud”? He could become a fantastic embezzler of funds if only he didn’t have a conscious!

  • The biggest overarching theme Greg sees from preparing for the “Oh My Fraud” podcast is a lack of internal controls that customers have

Segment two

  • Oh….great term that I’ve never heard called the Fraud Triangle. Greg dropped the term today to refer to the things you need for fraud to flourish: opportunity, pressure, and rationalization

  • What’s the one thing that drives most fraud to be uncovered? The person committing the fraud gets JUUUUUUUUUST a touch too greedy and then gets busted.

  • The retail industry, for example, does calculations on how much money should be spent on deterring shoplifting. The answer might surprise you because they are not looking to control 100% of the shoplifting incidents.

  • According to the ACFE Occupational Fraud 2022: A Report to the Nations, organizations lose approximately five percent of revenue to fraud each year with the average loss per case totaling more than $1.78 million https://www.acfeinsights.com/acfe-insights/tag/report+to+the+nations 

Segment three

Segment four

  • Is it possible to create a concierge comedy service? A subscription service for a comedy club? If you own a comedy club, you could have an annual pass to the club. Greg knows of ZERO comedy clubs actually doing this. 

  • “If comedy clubs banded together and subscribed to a pool of comedians they could draw on, that would be interesting.” —Ron Baker

  • A big THANK YOU to Greg Kyte for joining us today. Folks, you have to check out his podcast with Caleb Newquist, Oh My Fraud, at this link https://ohmyfraud.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #468: Centers of Progress — Interview with Chelsea Follett

This week Ron and Ed welcomed Chelsea Follett to talk about her book, Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World. From the book: "Where does progress happen? The story of civilization is the story of the city. It is cities that have created and defined the modern world by acting as the sites of pivotal advances in culture, politics, science, technology, and more. There is no question that certain places, at certain times in history, have contributed disproportionately toward making the world a better place. This book tells the story of 40 of those places." In Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World, Chelsea Follett examines a diverse group of cities, ranging from ancient Athens to Song-era Hangzhou.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

  • Chelsea spends a lot of time thinking about human progress (get it?) and the conditions that drive it. This inspired her to write a book called “Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World”. More info here: https://www.amazon.com/Centers-Progress-Cities-Changed-World/dp/1952223652 

  • Chelsea started writing this book during the pandemic and this (the pandemic) caused people to question cities and their role in the future. It was HARD the trim the list down to 40 cities for her book. 

  • Most of the cities in Chelsea’s book were selected by reverse engineering things like a stable food supply and sanitation (for example). The origin points became some of the cities featured in her book.

  • Urban centers are where we have seen new innovations and world changing innovations. Chelsea’s book - “Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World” - goes through the examples

Segment two:

  • Relative peace, freedom, and multitudes of people are some of the key attributes associated with the Centers of Progress identified in Chelsea’s book. More info here: https://www.amazon.com/Centers-Progress-Cities-Changed-World/dp/1952223652  

  • Sure, sure…human accomplishment can happen during times of war and instability. Chelsea’s book looks at the conditions that foster creativity and progress to help cultivate innovation. Peace and stability.

  • “Conditions for progress can unravel so quickly. One of the most recent examples is Hong Kong.” —Chelsea Follett

  • Many people assume the humanities are the result of leisure time, entrepreneurs, inventions. Writing evolved gradually due to…accountants and their need to document finances. Apt for our audience :)  

Segment three:

  • “Economic development […] then funds all of the other forms of progress. Scientific advancements, inventions, great artworks.” —Chelsea Follett

  • So much of the great music that we are familiar with TO THIS DAY all occurred in Venice. That’s where artists were well paid so it was lucrative for them. More on great cities here: https://www.amazon.com/Centers-Progress-Cities-Changed-World/dp/1952223652

  • How did Thomas Edison influence Hollywood? At the time he was a very litigious man so the only way creative freedom in film could happen would be to go all the way to the West Coast…where Hollywood was created.

Segment four:

  • Why is Wellington, New Zealand in Chelsea’s book about 40 cities that changed the world? They represent significant moral progress in the area of suffrage throughout the city’s history.

  • China was superior in many aspects during the 12th century through the 16th century. Conditions for prosperity are fragile and not being at the front of the Industrial Revolution for China is a great example.

  • San Francisco is a “city of extremes” and is featured in Chelsea’s book, “Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World”. More info here: https://www.amazon.com/Centers-Progress-Cities-Changed-World/dp/1952223652  

  • A big THANK YOU to Chelsea Follett for joining us today to talk about her book, “Centers of Progress: 40 Cities That Changed the World”. More info here: https://www.amazon.com/Centers-Progress-Cities-Changed-World/dp/1952223652 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.