Episode #549: The Experience Dividend — Why Money is Time

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Despite Ben Franklin’s witticism, time is not money. In economic reality, money is time. That’s because we buy things with money, but we pay for them with time.

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ed and Ron explore how consumers, firms, and even the Federal Reserve are starting to measure value not in dollars, but in time well spent.

Drawing on a May 2025 article in the White Hutchinson Leisure eNewsletter, and the 1997 Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas report Time Well Spent: The Declining Real Cost of Living in America, the conversation covers:

• Why experience-based businesses have been flourishing since Joe Pine and James Gilmore identified the Experience Economy

• How to think about “valueflation”

• The profound economic insight that goods are getting cheaper, freeing up more time to enjoy life, and spend on experiences and transformations

Whether you’re an accountant, entrepreneur, or simply a lover of liberty and leisure, this episode will challenge how you think about time, productivity, and pricing.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• The saying "time is money" is famously attributed to Benjamin Franklin. He included it in his 1748 essay, "Advice to a Young Tradesman" https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-03-02-0130 

• “Time is not money. Money is time.” —George Gilder (more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gilder)

• “Time is not cost. That is the important thing.” —Ed Kless on segment one of the show today

• Did you know that the Federal Reserve of Dallas published a report in 1997 called, “Time Well Spent: The Declining Real Cost of Living in America” (which was called out in the book, Superabundance) https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/annual-report-federal-reserve-bank-dallas-475/1997-annual-report-596521 

• From the same Federal Reserve report, “Queen Elizabeth owned silk stockings. The capitalist achievement does not typically consist in providing more silk stockings for queens but in bringing them within the reach of factory girls in return for steadily decreasing amounts of effort.” —Joseph Schumpeter

Segment two

• Staying with the time price of money theme, a women’s haircut in 1920 was 0.25 cents and, on average, represented 27 minutes of work. In 1950, the same haircut was $1.50 and represented 63 minutes of work. In 1997, the same haircut was $10 and represented 46 minutes of work.

• Ed just went to Cosm in Dallas and had some great things to say about the overall experience in segment two of the show today. https://www.cosm.com/ 

• From a White Hutchinson report, “Location-based entertainment and sports venues are all in the business of selling time well spent, where what people buy is the time they spend engaged at the venue.” https://www.whitehutchinson.com/news/lenews/2025/may/article107.shtml 

• Also from the White Hutchinson report, “A blockbuster film at a cinema usually lasts about 2 hours and costs $16 for a Saturday evening viewing. We value the time spent watching the movie at 13.3 cents a minute. But if we see it on an IMAX screen, the ticket might cost $24 or an MVT of 20 cents a minute. We consider the IMAX viewing experience at a 50% higher value for time well spent, so we will pay more for it.” https://www.whitehutchinson.com/news/lenews/2025/may/article107.shtml 

Segment three

• Valueflation is Joe Pine’s way of describing how the value of goods and services inflates when they are customized and transformed into experiences or transformations—even if their physical costs stay the same or go down. More here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/joepine_experienceeconomy-activity-7303064924715421699-zTd5/ 

• From the White Hutchinson report: “National Football League (NFL) games - the average 2024 ticket price was $132, and the average game length was 3 hours and 12 minutes, resulting in an MVT of 69 cents per minute. The 2024 Super Bowl had a much higher MVT (money value of time) - $18.29 per minute for the average face-value ticket sold by the NFL and $34.96 per minute for the average resale ticket price” https://www.whitehutchinson.com/news/lenews/2025/may/article107.shtml 

• When it comes to leisure time, this can be counterintuitive. The less educated you are, the more leisure time you have. See the attached image and then reference this report https://www.whitehutchinson.com/news/lenews/2025/may/article107.shtml 

• This applies to so many things and I’m not even sure the context matters. “When it comes to that human interaction, this is something that AI can’t do.” —Ron Baker

Segment four

• “Here’s a New Rule for You— the 10-80-10 Rule” by Paul Dunn https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/heres-new-rule-you-10-80-10-paul-dunn-okb4c/ 

• “What to me is so exciting about the transformation economy is that this is a completely different offering.” —Ron Baker

• “Immersive Experiences Are Reshaping B2B Events — And It’s About Time” by Jane Hague https://convene.com/catalyst/company-news/immersive-experiences-reshaping-b2b-events/ 

• “Time Well Spent, Putting money where the memories are” by Patricia Cullen https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-gb/entrepreneurs/time-well-spent/491289 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #548: Memorable Mentors — Fred Smith, Founder of Federal Express

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Ron and Ed explore the legacy and leadership lessons of Fred Smith, the visionary founder of Federal Express. From a bold undergraduate paper (legend has it that he only got a C+) to building one of the world’s most transformative logistics companies, Smith’s journey is a case study in perseverance, innovation, and strategic execution. We’ll unpack what made him not just a successful entrepreneur but a memorable mentor, both to his team and to an entire generation of business leaders. Tune in to discover the values, decisions, and mindset that helped shape the global economy, one overnight delivery at a time.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one:

• Here is some background on Fred Smith and how he turned a term paper at Yale into a $90BN empire otherwise known as Federal Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_W._Smith 

• Fred Smith, founder of FedEx, didn’t start from nowhere—his father was a successful businessman who built a fortune in hotels, restaurants, & even bus lines. Entrepreneurship ran in the family.

• Fred Smith built FedEx on this simple chain: Take care of your people → they deliver amazing service → profits follow. Otherwise known as People, Service, Profit #FedEx #Leadership

• FedEx was born as Federal Express. Fred Smith wanted a name that sounded official, trustworthy, and capable of delivering coast to coast.

• By 1994, “Federal Express” felt too long for a company built on speed. The new name—FedEx—was meant to be sleek, memorable, and future‑ready.

Segment two:

• After nearly 50 years at the helm, Fred Smith retired as CEO of FedEx in June 2022. A legendary run that transformed global logistics.

• FedEx Express operates the world’s largest cargo airline fleet—over 650 jets and counting—making it the biggest air-cargo fleet globally.

• At the height of the pandemic, FedEx moved over 1 billion masks, gloves, & test kits and became a key partner in Operation Warp Speed, delivering vaccines to every corner of the U.S.

• COSMOS (Customer Operations & Services Master Online System) launched in 1979 as FedEx’s internal hub—centrally managing people, packages, vehicles. This led to an “excuse-less culture” that allowed customers to eventually see the exact same information as FedEx customer service reps.

• The Hierarchy of Fours at FedEx: People, Service, Profit, Investment. Fred Smith taught that if you care for your people first, they’ll deliver great service, which drives profit—allowing you to reinvest.

Segment three:

• Today I learned that Ron Baker took a personal tour of the FedEx operations facilities in Memphis in September, 2002.

• Here are two great videos of the Memphis FedEx hub that Ron toured back in 2002. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz-o3Q5kyMA and also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b46xegiwOZA 

• The sunset rule at FedEx, “The sun will not set on an unresolved customer or employee problem that is not dealt with in some way.”

• Even for professional services firms as well as FedEx, from Ed on the show today, “You’ve gotta build capacity before you build revenue.”

Segment four:

• Fred Smith isn’t just the FedEx founder—he was also a part‑owner of the Washington Commanders (formerly Redskins). He bought in back in 2003 alongside other investors.

• Before launching into the Canadian Football League, Fred Smith tried to bring an NFL expansion team—the “Memphis Hound Dogs”—to town in 1993. That didn’t work so Fred became principal owner of the Memphis Mad Dogs, part of the CFL’s U.S. expansion in 1995. 

• “FedEx has always emphasized great customer service. But now that we offer a broad array of services beyond just express delivery, we are seeking to differentiate ourselves through an outstanding customer experience. […] We want to make sure that the customer has a great experience at every touchpoint.” —Fred Smith, founder of FedEx

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #547: Recapping Scaling New Heights 2025 - Ninth interview with Joe Woodard

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In his unprecedented ninth appearance with Ron and Ed, Joe Woodard will share his thoughts on the learning from the Woodard Group's Scaling New Heights 2025 event and also give a small sneak peek at next year! As always, the conversation will be fast, furious, and wide-ranging. More specifically, with hundreds of billions being invested in agentic AI, the next six months might see more change than the last six years!

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Did you miss the biggest Scaling New Heights conference yet? Joe and the team did a great job with a high net promoter score. Don’t miss the next one. More info here: https://www.woodard.com/scaling-new-heights-2026  

• Over $3 trillion has been, is being, or will be poured into the accounting space over a 5 year window and we are about 2 years in.

• Joe wants small accounting firms to hear this: “You actually have a sellable asset now, even if you never dreamed that you would.” 

• Great takeaway from Joe Woodard today: The practitioners who shared their own practice experience are some of the biggest rock stars from Scaling New Heights this year.

Segment two

• This is a great pull quote from Joe Woodard today. Out of context, it sounds like an ultimatum but it’s not. It can also be a mindset problem for the practice. The quote: “Ultimately, the customer is the one who sets the price.”

• 1/2 “We taught the AI how to do its job. To the point now where the latest enhancements to my Tesla mean not only do I not have to touch the wheel, it’s all eye attention it monitors. And now, it drives better than I do.” —Joe Woodard

• 2/2 “Now, it’s the same thing, only it’s not driving, it’s bookkeeping, and it’s tax prep. —Joe Woodard

Segment three

• Don’t create your own pricing. From Joe Woodard: “That objective voice, whether it’s a coach, a mentor, a colleague…anything is better than nothing.”

• “If you just take an allocated burden, I’m spending some five-figure amount of money on my after action review (AAR) for Scaling New heights. As a business owner, that’s how much I value it.” —Joe Woodard

• “If you implement after action reviews (AARs), you can get rid of the timesheet and the annual performance appraisal, which I think are two things that subtract value from firms.” —Ron Baker

• Joe Woodard had a great callback to Daniel Susskind on the show today, “The ideal way to operate is to be paid so that you CAN do something, not TO DO something.” 

Segment four

• Strange New World is the theme for Scaling New Heights next year. I have not personally confirmed with Joe but something tells me he is a fan of the currently running Star Trek show, Strange New Worlds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Strange_New_Worlds 

• From the AI class Joe Woodard took at Brown University regarding the rate of change: “Not year over year. Not month over month. Not even week over week. It’s day over day exponential multipliers.”

• These were QUICK thoughts from Joe towards the end of the show today. Here are some things to watch: 1) Self-driving cars. 2) Any area of the professions that is focused on research, development, data analytics…those jobs will evaporate. 3) Doctors are going to find that they are visited less because pre-diagnosis will be handled by AI. 

• A big THANK YOU to Joe Woodard for joining us today. His ninth appearance may have been his best yet. Scaling New Heights 2026: Strange New World has been announced and you can find more info here: https://www.woodard.com/scaling-new-heights-2026 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode Reprise: Declaring Independence from the Tyranny of Taylorism

Our very first episode aired on July 4, 2014 and was titled, “Declaring Independence from the Tyranny of Taylorism”. In honor of this milestone, Ron and Ed’s hard work, and the fact that this coming Friday is a holiday in the United States, we are running our very first episode again.

What is Taylorism?

On our premiere show, Ed and Ron tackle the ghost and gospel of efficiency, as made popular by Frederick Winslow Taylor, author of The Principles of Scientific Management in 1911.

As always, please check our website for upcoming and previous show notes and recordings, use Twitter to find the show at @AskTSOE or find us on Facebook.

The Soul of Enterprise show hosts, Ron Baker and Ed Kless, are on X (the artist formerly known as Twitter) at @ronaldbaker and @edkless, respectively (and obviously).

Episode #546: The Road to Hell and Bad Marketing — Interview with Nick Asbury

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Ron and Ed welcome Nick Asbury to a conversation about his book, The Road to Hell: How purposeful business leads to bad marketing and a worse world And how human creativity is the way out. 

FROM THE BOOK JACKET

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, says the proverb. Never has that been truer than in the case of corporate purpose, the movement that took over the business and advertising world following the financial crisis of 2008.

Guided by the mantra ‘do well by doing good’, businesses embraced a social purpose agenda that sought to align doing good for society with doing well in the marketplace. The result, according to author Nick Asbury, has been a wave of humourless and hubristic advertising, and a spiral of worse social outcomes, as businesses wade into issues beyond their remit, while neglecting their real ethical responsibilities.

Diving into examples including Bud Light, Patagonia, Cadbury and Unilever, Nick Asbury builds a compelling case against purpose – covering what it is, where it came from, how it leads to worse marketing, and how it leads to worse social outcomes. As a positive alternative, he makes the case for creativity, cognitive empathy and valuing the human over the corporate. 

Amid the fierce and topical debate about purpose and corporate politics, The Road to Hell is a sharp and entertaining intervention, shedding light on how we got here – and where we go next.

Buy on Amazon

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• What does Nick mean by purpose? Generally it means social purpose in the business and corporate world. A kind of reason that goes beyond simply doing what you do to make money. This is the kind of definition that Nick argues against in his book, The Road to Hell https://www.amazon.com/Road-Hell-purposeful-marketing-creativity-ebook/dp/B0DHYLXVYR?&linkCode=sl1&tag=verainst-20&linkId=349aaa20d9023274a14bd3e27e49e99c&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl 

• “We all need a sense of purpose in our lives. What I see as the commercialization of purpose is what I often cut against.” —Nick Asbury

• Nick mentioned Larry Fink several times today during the show. Here is some quick background on him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Fink 

• “What you often see these days is companies giving some money to charity and then doing a very loud marketing campaign about how purposeful they are.” —Nick Asbury

Segment two

• “Certainly in the marketing world we’ve gone through various pieces of language over the decades. There used to be lots of talk about a unique sales proposition. Then there was talk of having a mission. […] I think purpose is a more fundamental claim.” —Nick Asbury

• While talking about Nick’s book today: Purpose leads to sameness, especially with marketing. It puts the emphasis on the company rather than the customer. That’s a damning criticism. More here: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Hell-purposeful-marketing-creativity-ebook/dp/B0DHYLXVYR 

• “I don’t really care that Hellman’s Mayonnaise has a purpose statement.” —Ron Baker

• In case you are wondering if Nick’s book takes a stand on the idea of “purpose”, he does point out that the biggest preachers of purpose were WeWork, Theranos, and FTX. More here: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Hell-purposeful-marketing-creativity-ebook/dp/B0DHYLXVYR 

Segment three

• Since we are talking purpose today, this came up on the show. The March of Dimes began with the sole purpose of curing Polio. It did that. And it’s still around. 

• What motivated Nick to dive deeper into purpose? “I felt like there was a lot of advertising that wasn’t treating people very smart. If you’re making ethical claims and saying, ‘Making the world a better place with every can of beer we sell’…..It’s pretty distasteful.”

• One could argue that Simon Sinek and his “Start with Why” book is the very essence of purpose. Our guest today, Nick Asbury, had some rather insightful, science-based arguments about the “Why”. Twitter is not the place for this. Look it up during segment three of the show.

• “Produce great widgets, pay your people fairly, and be a nice place to work. That’s a pretty cool thing to do.” —Nick Asbury

Segment four

• Mentioned by Ron today on the show, The Immortal Mind: A Neurosurgeon’s Case for the Existence of the Soul https://www.amazon.com/Immortal-Mind-Neurosurgeons-Case-Existence/dp/1546006354 

• So what is Brandolini’s Law? The Bullsh*t Asymmetry Principle, also known as Brandolini’s Law, states that the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

• A big THANK YOU to Nick Asbury for joining us today. His latest book is “The Road to Hell: How purposeful business leads to bad marketing and a worse world and how human creativity is the way out” https://www.amazon.com/Road-Hell-purposeful-marketing-creativity-ebook/dp/B0DHYLXVYR 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #545: The Power of Differentiation — Interview with Barry Labov

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, hosts Ron Baker and Ed Kless are joined by Barry LaBov, founder and CEO of LABOV Marketing Communications and Training. A two-time Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and inductee into the Entrepreneur of the Year Hall of Fame, Barry brings a wealth of experience in brand differentiation and leadership. He has authored over a dozen business books, including The Power of Differentiation, and has collaborated with iconic brands like Harley-Davidson and Audi. Beyond his marketing acumen, Barry’s background as a musician and songwriter adds a unique perspective to his approach in business. In this conversation, they delve into strategies for uncovering and celebrating what makes brands unique, fostering employee engagement, and building customer loyalty.

Buy on Amazon

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• How does a 1980s rock band called Mark Urgent prepare someone like Barry for a career running a brand strategy firm? Managing the creatives is most certainly a challenge. https://www.markurgent.com/ 

• The best professional pricers are musicians. “In music, the perfect doesn’t exist.” —Barry LaBov

• “So many of our favorite songs were made originally from a mistake. […] I look at imperfection as a part of the creative process.” —Barry LaBov

• “This is where you lose the hearts and minds and souls of your employees.” —Barry LaBov on the commodity monster. More background here: How do you defeat the commodity monster? So many of us are being pressured to look like, feel like, and price like, everyone else. The commodity monster wants us to smooth out those rough edges that make us a little unique. When you do that, you are giving into the commodity monster. 

• “I do not create the differentiation for our clients. I discover it.” —Barry LaBov

Segment two

• “Desperate brands make desperate decisions.” —Barry LaBov

• In an industry that claims to do it all, what does Barry do to separate himself? “We really stress internally that we have to choose what words explain who we are. Words create worlds.” —Barry LaBov

• From Barry on the show today: So often the accounting firm gives away so much stuff so that you file tax returns with them. Well, big deal. Everyone files a tax return. What happens is you are going to be compared to how well you file a tax return as opposed to that one big time when you saved them from a tax bill.

• “AI is really great, properly used, if you want to get mediocre work INCREDIBLY fast.” —Barry LaBov

• From our guest today, Barry LaBov: There will always be technology that dramatically alters civilization (from the printed Bible to AI).

Segment three

• Barry wrote a great book called The Power of Differentiation and then he dropped this knowledge bomb on our show today about a client of his brand agency: “Their demographic is different but their psychographic is all the same.” https://www.labov.com/articles/power-of-differentiation/ 

• What psychographic questions would Barry add to the US Census to better serve business customers? “What is your vision for our country?” “What is it that you do not want our country to veer away from?” “What is it that you find most prideful about our country?”

• Jam sessions and Encore sessions are common tools used at Labov. More info here: https://www.labov.com/lets-jam-pod/ 

• What words do you wish more companies used to define their brand? “I think corporate America needs to be bold enough to use authentic language that is them.”

Segment four

• Hey Barry, define the word brand. “Brand is your promise to those who utilize your products/services. It’s your promise.” —Barry LaBov

• Great example of differentiation from Barry: How many people owned an MP3 player? (Not many hands go up)….how many people owned an iPod? (All the hands go up)

• A big THANK YOU to Barry LaBov for joining us today. “The Power of Differentiation: Win hearts, minds and market share” is the book that you need to check out. More here: https://www.labov.com/articles/power-of-differentiation/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #544: Interview with Jackie Meyer

NEWS FROM JACKIE

This is a link to the final version of the pricing calculator before the AICPA mass releases on their website for members only.

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode of “The Soul of Enterprise,” hosts Ron Baker and Ed Kless engage in a dynamic conversation with Dr. Jackie Meyer, a trailblazer in the accounting profession. As the founder of TaxPlanIQ and host of “The Concierge CPA” podcast, Dr. Meyer has been recognized as a “40 Under 40” honoree since 2018. She is renowned for her innovative approach to tax planning and her commitment to enhancing the health, wealth, and relationships of accounting professionals. In this insightful discussion, Dr. Meyer shares her journey from establishing an award-winning CPA firm to developing a SaaS tax advisory platform. She delves into her trademarked ROI Method™, which emphasizes value-based pricing and addresses cultural challenges within firms to combat burnout and turnover. Listeners will gain valuable insights into transforming accounting practices, the impact of AI on the profession, and strategies for achieving a sustainable work-life balance.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Even BEFORE TaxPlanIQ, Jackie Meyer led a boutique CPA firm in Southlake, TX, building it into an award‑winning practice focused on tax strategies and value‑based pricing. She grew the firm, boosted revenue, and eventually sold it as a seven‑figure exit

• After having her first child, Jackie recognized the burnout risk and shifted her firm to adopt a value‑pricing model centered on tax‑strategy packages. This move allowed her to triple her income while reducing client volume and workload

• In 2023, TaxPlanIQ was selected by the AICPA and CPA.com as one of only five startups spotlighted for their vision and innovation in transforming the accounting profession

• “Accountants want math.” —Jackie Meyer. No truer words could be said about the reason why hourly billing is still so stubborn in the accounting industry.

Segment two

• Why do we have a pipeline problem in the accounting industry? “Because the work people assume we do, sucks.” —Jackie Meyer 

• “We need to be putting advisory services and training into colleges and maybe even high school.” —Jackie Meyer

• A summary of Jackie’s quick thoughts on AI: There’s always the human element that we can bring to the table…..but AI does a heck of a lot and is pretty good at advisory. It is the future and we should embrace it as our BFF.

• Jackie actually wanted to be a true counselor growing up but life choices moved her to a financial counselor, otherwise known as an accountant.

Segment three

• Advice for accounting students incoming….segment three of the show today started off with a great listener comment and advice for students.

• What should accounting students look for in their first firm? It’s not necessarily the big 4 or big 100. The boutique firms also offer a great opportunity regardless of whether you are looking for a more traditional firm or a more progressive firm.

• We talked about the need to constantly repeat yourself when talking about your mission, vision, and purpose. It reminds me of Horstman’s Law: “Tell your people one thing, 7 times, and half of them will tell you they never heard it.”

• “If you dislike change, you're going to dislike irrelevance even more.” —General Eric Shinseki

Segment four

• Jackie’s take on PE: “Private equity is going to be really disappointed in years to come.”

• Ron and Jackie talked at great length about moral injury during segment four of the show today. We interviewed Dr. Wendy Dean on episode 503 about her book, “If I Betray These Words” https://www.amazon.com/If-Betray-These-Words-Clinicians/dp/1586423541 

• A big THANK YOU to Dr. Jackie Meyer for joining us today. Learn more about her at taxplaniq.com and jackiemeyercpa.com/podcast 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #543: Totally Tariff-Free Talk

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

You’ve heard us talk tariffs. You’ve definitely heard us talk Trump’s tariffs. So this week, in a bold act of podcasting restraint, we’re doing something radical: no tariff talk whatsoever. Instead, we tackle a roundup of current business events—from curious market moves to eyebrow-raising headlines—with our signature commentary and a touch of irreverence. Think of it as a tariff-free zone for your brain. You’re welcome.

AI SHOW NOTES (has anyone seen our editor???)

1. Introduction and Disney’s Changing Business Model

• Emergence from industrial to transformation economy

• Shift in Disney’s primary profit source to theme parks and experiences

• Revenue and profit comparison between Disney’s experiences division and entertainment division

• Announcement of new Disney park in Abu Dhabi and its implications
  

2. Walt Disney’s Leadership and Legacy

• Impact of Walt Disney’s culture and customer-centric philosophy (“plussing” the guest experience)

• Discussion on Disney’s shift towards luxury branding and price increases, and the departure from Walt’s original intent

• Reflection on the resilience of Disney’s foundational culture elements amidst corporate changes
  

3. Lessons from Walt Disney and Innovation

• Walt’s approach to resistance from industry “experts” regarding Disneyland

• Comparison with Steve Jobs and skepticism over Apple Stores

• Examples of legendary figures (e.g., Walt Disney, John Lennon) who were initially discouraged

4. Continuous Improvement and ‘Plussing’

• The importance of continual innovation and surprising customers

• Disney’s philosophy of maintaining lifelong guests through constant delight

5. Evolution in Legal (and Professional) Service Pricing Models

• Survey on Australian law firms moving away from billable hours to fixed fees and capped fees

• Discussion on the persistence of timesheets despite alternative fee arrangements

• Desire for more comprehensive surveys addressing the elimination of timesheets in accounting and law firms

6. Amazon and Costco: Pricing Strategies

• Explanation of Amazon’s dynamic (algorithmic) pricing methods and ‘Project Nessie’

• Contrast with Costco’s transparent, capped cost-plus pricing approach

• Discussion of consumer perceptions and trust in different pricing models

• Debate over whether dynamic or trusted dynamic pricing is preferable

7. Client Compensation and Relationship Models in Professional Firms

• Tim Williams’s five types of client compensation profiles:

• Paying for inputs (e.g., hourly billing)

• Hiring for outputs, paying for inputs

• Hiring and paying for outputs (productized services)

• Hiring for outcomes, paying for outputs

• Hiring for and paying for outcomes (outcome-based/shared risk compensation)

• Exploration of barriers to widespread adoption of outcome-based or transformation pricing

• Subscription models as a potential bridge toward serial transformations

8. Specialization vs. “One-Stop Shop” in Agencies and Professional Firms

• Critique of “full-service” business models and argument for ‘best in class’ specialization

• Data on Fortune 1000 companies using multiple agencies/law firms

• Benefits of being a ‘first stop’ rather than a ‘one-stop’ shop

9. Trusted Advisor and Deep Client Relationships

• Skepticism toward the overuse of the “trusted advisor” designation

• Evaluating the depth and reality of advisory relationships (Joey Havens’ exercise and Mark Gandy’s CFO standard)

• Importance of being indispensable to clients through deep knowledge and involvement

10. Benefits of Narrow Positioning and Brand Polarization

• Tim Williams’s arguments for narrow vs. generalist positioning

• Being “intensely appealing” vs. “moderately appealing”

• The strength of polarizing brands (“lovers and haters”) and the danger of apathy

• Example: “I Hate Steven Singer” as branding genius; mention of “ronbakersucks.com”

11. Hybrid Work and Changing Workplace Norms

• Data on remote/hybrid work post-pandemic across several countries

• Perspectives from business leaders like Jamie Dimon on remote work

• The role of “presenteeism” and leadership in workplace flexibility

• Discussion of pros and cons of remote and in-person collaboration

12. Labor Shortages and Shifts in the Job Market

• Global complaints about labor and talent shortages across industries

• Analysis of what “labor shortage” really means—price and distribution vs. actual scarcity

• Impacts of occupational licensing and geographic mobility on labor availability

• The challenge of entry-level opportunities with AI automation

• Reflections on professional firms’ lack of vision for talent development and feeder systems (e.g., Walt Disney’s CalArts)

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #542: Your Body; Your Healthcare — Interview with Dr. Jeffrey Singer

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ron and Ed welcome Dr. Jeffrey A. Singer, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a seasoned general surgeon, to discuss his latest book, Your Body, Your Health Care. Dr. Singer delves into the erosion of patient autonomy in the modern healthcare system, attributing much of it to increasing government intervention. He advocates for a return to a patient-centered approach, emphasizing informed consent and individual sovereignty in medical decisions. The conversation explores the historical shift from medical paternalism to patient rights, critiques current regulatory frameworks, and offers insights into policy reforms that prioritize personal choice and freedom in healthcare.

AI SHOW NOTES (while our editor is still out)

Live Broadcast Segment Planning

Ed, Ron, and Jeffrey discussed the logistics of a live broadcast, including technical setup and the need for clear communication during breaks. Jeffrey shared his background, including his medical training and eventual move to Arizona, while Ed and Ron prepared for their segments. They agreed on the format for the show, with Ron and Ed trading off segments, and Jeffrey was informed of the live nature of the broadcast, emphasizing the importance of adhering to "Nixon rules." The show was set to begin, with Ed introducing the segment and expressing excitement about having Jeffrey as a guest.

Patient Autonomy in Healthcare Policy

Dr. Jeffrey Singer, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a practicing surgeon, discussed his book "Your Body, Your Healthcare," which explores how government interference undermines patient autonomy in healthcare decisions. He explained that his book reframes healthcare policy debates through the lens of individual liberty, drawing on his clinical experience to make complex issues accessible to a general audience. Singer highlighted the historical shift from medical paternalism to patient autonomy, using the case of Mary Schloendorff to illustrate this evolution. He emphasized that while doctors now respect patient autonomy, governments often infringe on this right by regulating medical practices and patient choices.

Medical Licensing as Protectionism

Dr. Jeffrey Singer explained how licensing laws, particularly for doctors, often serve as protectionist policies that limit competition rather than genuinely protect the public. He shared a hypothetical scenario where a licensed surgeon attempts to switch to psychiatry, only to find that private organizations like hospitals, insurance companies, and malpractice carriers restrict practice based on board certification rather than basic medical licensing. Singer traced the history of medical licensing to the 19th century, showing how the American Medical Association successfully lobbied for state licensing laws to exclude competitors, and discussed how this has created a cartel-like system that limits alternative payment models and healthcare delivery methods.

FDA's History and Political Influence

Dr. Jeffrey Singer discussed the history and impact of the FDA, noting that while its original purpose was to prevent fraud, subsequent regulations have often delayed access to medications and been influenced by political considerations. He criticized the Maha report, co-authored with Terence Keeley and Bautista Vivanco, for being poorly researched and driven by preconceived conclusions, particularly regarding the role of ultra-processed foods in health issues. The discussion also touched on the FDA's history of regulating prescription and over-the-counter medications, highlighting how political pressures and special interests have shaped drug accessibility.

Addressing Homelessness and Healthcare Barriers

Jeffrey discussed the challenges of addressing homelessness, emphasizing the need to respect individual autonomy in mental health treatment while acknowledging the complexities of the issue. He highlighted the role of factors such as zoning laws, affordable housing shortages, and regulatory barriers to accessing effective medications like clozapine. Jeffrey also addressed the impact of certificate of need laws, which he believes hinder competition and drive up healthcare costs, and he expressed optimism that some states might repeal these laws despite resistance from entrenched interests.

Podcast Plans

The meeting focused on a recent podcast featuring Dr. Jeffrey Singer from the Cato Institute, who discussed their research paper on the MAGA report and its impact, including being cited in Rolling Stone and other media outlets. Ed and Ron expressed interest in featuring Terrence Keeley on a future episode to discuss his work on government regulation, and Jeffrey offered to make an email introduction.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #541: Omnium Gatherum

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Once again, it is time for Ron and Ed to get a few things off their chests. Not since October 2024's Outstanding Olio has there been such a collection of Friday Farrago, Glorious Gallimaufry, or even Holiday Hodgepodge. Join us as we make our way through this Mishmash of Miscellany.

AI SHOW NOTES (while our editor is out)

Drug Trial Discussion

Ron shared an update on a promising cancer drug, dosterome, which showed promising results in phase 2 trials for rectal cancer, though it still needs to progress to phase 3 trials for approval. Ed inquired about any connection to AI in the drug's development, and Ron confirmed that AI may have played a role in its discovery.

iPhone Tariffs and Trade Concerns

Ed and Ron discussed Apple's potential iPhone price increase and the Trump administration's trade policies. They criticized Trump's proposed 25% tax on foreign-made iPhones and his threats against the EU. The conversation touched on the impracticality of bringing iPhone manufacturing back to the US and the negative effects of tariffs on innovation and competition. They also questioned the legality of Trump's tax proposal and expressed frustration with the overall situation.

Scott Adams and Shingles Vaccine

Ed and Ron discussed the passing of Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, and shared personal reflections on his work and legacy. They also explored a recent medical finding linking shingles vaccination to a reduced risk of dementia, with Ron highlighting a potential connection to viral infections and Alzheimer's disease. Ed mentioned his intention to get the shingles vaccine, despite having had the disease before. The conversation concluded with technical adjustments to Ed's microphone and a reminder to listeners about contacting Ron and Ed via email and visiting their website for updates.

Political Commentary and Innovation Insights

Ed and Ron discussed Congressman Keith's post on X about voting for the House Reconciliation Bill, which Ed criticized for its spending and lack of significant reforms. They also talked about an article by Abigail Anthony on tribalism and its implications. Finally, Ed shared an interesting fact about a new product made from lab-grown T-rex leather, which is set to be launched by the end of 2025.

Rock and Roll's Resistance Impact

Ron and Ed discussed the impact of rock and roll, particularly in East Germany, where music was a tool for resistance against communism. They explored how rock and roll symbolizes American values of cooperation and individual freedom. Ed shared an example of "plusing" from AMC, which is offering 50% off movie tickets on Wednesdays to subscribers. They also briefly touched on President Trump's controversial policy regarding ships in U.S. ports, which Ron criticized for its economic repercussions.

Influential Movies and Political Views

Ed and Ron discuss influential movies based on a study using Wikipedia citations. They review the top 10 list, which includes unexpected entries like "Space Jam" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." The number one most influential film, according to this metric, is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit," which surprises both Ed and Ron. They discuss the reasons for its high ranking, including its groundbreaking special effects and iconic cameos. The conversation briefly shifts to Trump's proposal for tariffs on foreign movies and his idea to reopen Alcatraz, which Ron criticizes as impractical and expensive.

Pope Leo's Potential Economic Views

Ron and Ed discussed the Pope's recent visit to Chicago, noting his attendance at a World Series game in 2005. They reflected on the Pope's background and his choice of the name "Leo the 14th," which Ed explained was a reference to Leo the 13th, who authored the encyclical "Rerum Novarum" that founded Catholic social teaching. Ed predicted that Pope Leo the 14th would be more open to economic ideas than Pope Francis, given his American upbringing and dual citizenship in Peru. They expressed interest in Father Sirico's perspective on the new Pope.

AI's Role in Job Creation

Ed and Ron discussed a recent article by Scott Linscomb in The Dispatch titled "What if AI means more jobs? Not fewer." The article suggests that AI is more likely to supplement existing work rather than replace humans entirely, with studies showing modest effects on employment and new job tasks offsetting those eliminated. They also mentioned Jim Petakookas's example of AI's impact on medical imaging at the Mayo Clinic, where radiologist numbers increased by 55% since AI's implementation. Ron noted the difficulty in teasing out cause and effect in studies of AI's impact on employment, while Ed highlighted changes in job titles and categorization over time, such as the shift from "computer programmer" to "software developer."

Newsom's Governorship Critique and Preview

Ron and Ed discussed Gavin Newsom's record as governor, highlighting his increased state budget, decimated oil industry, and unfulfilled promises on homelessness. They criticized Newsom for blaming Turlock Mayor Amy Bublack for the homelessness crisis while ignoring his own failures. The conversation touched on similar issues with Andrew Cuomo and the challenges of executive experience in politics. They also previewed an upcoming interview with Dr. Jeffrey Singer about his book "Your Body Your Choice."

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #540: Inventing Sequence — Interview with Doug Reuter

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Ron and Ed sit down with Doug Reuter, the inventive mind behind the beloved board game Sequence. Doug shares the fascinating journey of bringing Sequence to life—a process that spanned four years of development, three years to secure licensing, and nearly another year before it hit store shelves in 1982. Beyond his success in the gaming industry, Doug delves into his political career, highlighting his two terms in the Minnesota House of Representatives. He discusses how his knack for strategy and rule-making in game design translated into his legislative work, where he adeptly utilized procedural rules to navigate political challenges. Join us for an engaging conversation that explores the intersections of creativity, entrepreneurship, and public service.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Our guest today, Doug Reuter, is a board game inventor. One night, he had a dream about a board game. Then yada, yada, yada, and now tens of millions of people play Sequence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_(game) 

• The original name for the board game was “Sequence Five” because in Doug’s dream there were 5 chips vertically and horizontally.

• From Board Game Geek, here is everything you need to know about Sequence. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2375/sequence 

• Doug's creativity didn't stop with Sequence! He also invented QB8 and QB8 WORDS, self-published games sold since 2014. https://peopleofplay.com/people/douglas-reuter 

Segment two

• 🎲 Our guest today, Doug Reuter — inventor of Sequence — served two terms in the Minnesota House (1997–2001), representing District 28A.

• Doug Reuter worked to reinstate the original language regarding the House session opening prayer rule, emphasizing tradition. He succeeded.

• In May 1999, Reuter left the Republican Party to become an Independent, citing concerns over partisan staff access. https://www.lrl.mn.gov/legdb/fulldetail?id=10559 

• Doug is extremely proud (and should be) about his biggest legislative accomplishment. He collaborated across party lines with Rep. Phyllis Kahn to oppose Governor Ventura’s proposal for a unicameral legislature in Minnesota.

Segment three

• 1 of 4: In 2013, Doug Reuter's son, Joel, a 28-year-old software engineer living in Seattle, was fatally shot by police during a mental health crisis.

• 2 of 4: Motivated by this tragedy, Doug and Nancy Reuter advocated for legislative change, resulting in the enactment of "Joel's Law" in 2015.

• 3 of 4: Since its implementation, "Joel's Law" has provided families with a critical tool to intervene during mental health crises.

• 4 of 4: Nancy and Doug’s efforts are to be applauded. They took a personal tragedy and turned it into meaningful policy reform, in the hopes that other families would not have to suffer.

• Doug Reuter, our guest today, mentioned the Treatment Advocacy Center which is an organization seeking to bring about similar change to Joel’s Law in states other than Washington. https://www.tac.org/ @taccommunicate

Segment four

• 🇺🇸 Doug served six years in the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam War era, primarily as a Yeoman in the Seattle area. https://www.lrl.mn.gov/legdb/fulldetail?id=10559 

• Doug has a new game sitting on his desk. He started it 8 years ago and the pieces of the game are staring him in the face. Maybe he will finish it for us :) 

• From inventing Sequence to influencing mental health laws, our guest —Doug Reuter— shared his creativity and compassion with us today. Thank you Doug!!!

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #539: We're not Done with Dunn — Interview with Paul Dunn

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ron and Ed welcome Paul Dunn, a 4-time TEDx speaker, award-winning entrepreneur, and chairman of B1G1: Business for Good shares his insights on how small businesses can make a massive impact through purpose-driven initiatives. From transforming customer connections to embedding giving into everyday business activities, Paul’s wisdom will inspire you to think differently about success and significance.

SHOW NOTES

• Big episode alert: The legendary Paul Dunn joins The Soul of Enterprise, dropping wisdom bombs on accounting, transformation, and the soul of business.

• Ron Baker sets the tone: “Paul’s impact is impossible to overstate.” From original accounting bootcamps to B1G1—his journey is mind-blowing.

• Paul’s core belief? “It’s not about the numbers. It’s about what happens beyond the numbers.” Business goes far deeper than spreadsheets.

• Accountants, listen up: Paul calls you HEROES. “You change lives, you save lives, you transform lives.” Let’s stop hiding behind modesty—your impact is REAL.

• But why don’t more accountants believe that? Paul says it’s a branding AND business model problem. Accountants are often the “last to get paid”… yet hold immense power and responsibility.

• Paul’s big idea: “AI is giving us more time to be human.” The rise of tech in accounting frees us to focus on relationships, purpose, and impact, not rote tasks.

• Letting go is the secret to flourishing. “The toughest part is letting go. But that’s how you create something bigger than yourself, an orchestra not a solo act.”

• The best firms? They’re not just bottom-line driven—they let go, empower, and become multipliers for others’ growth.

• “You’re not here just to report on history, but to create history for the people you serve.” Paul’s philosophy is all about making a dent in the universe.

• Quoting Joe Pine: “The real purpose of business is to foster humanity flourishing.” That’s not just a slogan, it’s a mission.

• How do we spread this transformation mindset? Paul says: “We must BE it and showcase the ones living it.” Let’s celebrate purpose-driven change, everywhere.

• If Paul could add a new chapter to his book “Time’s Up”? It’d be “Let Go.” Think about the lives you could change—inside and outside your firm—by empowering others.

• Purpose vs. Profit? “Profit is a result, not the purpose,” Paul says. “Set a vision that outlives you—and profits will follow as a byproduct.”

• Paul’s take on Steve Jobs: “The storyteller sets the vision, values, agenda for a generation yet to come.” Accountants, you’re story creators for your clients!

• Burnout isn’t what you think. Ron references Dr. Wendy Dean’s “moral injury”: Burnout comes when you’re prevented from doing right by your values—not just overwork.

• His book recs: “Buy Back Your Time” by Dan Martell and “Work Backwards” by Tim Duggan. Both are game-changers for thinking about time & impact.

• The B1G1 origin story is magic: A simple “what if”—what if every transaction did good in the world? Buy a TV, give the gift of sight. Drink coffee, fund clean water.

• Paul’s through-line: “It’s never about you. Find something greater to contribute to. Ripple effects matter more than ego.”

• And a parting mic-drop: “When your vision becomes more powerful than your memory, your future becomes more powerful than your past.” Read that again.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #538: In the Octagon — Eighth interview with Joe Woodard

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

What do David Allen's Getting Things Done, Daniel Susskind's A World Without Work, and AppleTV's Severence have in common? They are all on the mind of Ron and Ed's Guest for this episode, Joe Woodard. This will be Joe's record-extending EIGHTH appearance on T$oE. He is always an audience favorite. So buckle up! As always it will be a fast-paced wide-ranging conversation with him.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• At the Woodard Conference this year, we have no other than DAVID ALLEN of Getting Things Done. Unlike any book on productivity, David Allen is focused on prioritization largely through elimination 

• “You should never have a thought twice unless you enjoy having that thought” —David Allen

• Declaring email bankruptcy is something that David Allen addresses is his book, Getting Things Done.

• I’ve got to be honest, I’m having a hard time keeping up with Joe Woodard and his dive into Getting Things Done by David Allen

Segment two

• Ron mentioned this book in segment two: Daniele Sussskind, A World Without Work https://www.amazon.com/World-Without-Work-Technology-Automation/dp/1250173515 

• Not to push you in a direction but this is great. Your thoughts? “Work without work is defined in the service of humanity”

• “Moving to the transformation economy is where we are going to head next.” —Ron Baker

• Regarding AI, “No, it does not have a soul.” —Joe Woodard

Segment three

• The answer to, “How do I find a job?” You figure out a way to serve your fellow man. —Ed Kless

• In the future: “We’re going to see some better version of humanity. But I don’t think that humanity will be doing what we currently call work.” —Joe Woodard

• Ed calls it future glee. What do you think? Are you a techno-optimist and excited about the future?

• “Whenever you have so much food, so much shelter, so much supply, so much wealth that everybody gets it and the power that can’t hide it. In a good way, in a Gene Roddenberry way.”

Segment four

• “I believe that ideal clients aren’t ideal because of their industry or some other characteristic. I think they are ideal because of how they think.” —Ron Baker

• “Rich is in the niches.” —probably not a Joe Woodard quote but he gets credit today on The Soul of Enterprise

• A big THANK YOU to Joe Woodard for joining us today. Are you joining us at Scaling New Heights? I will be there! https://www.woodard.com/scaling-new-heights-2025 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #537: One of Our Own — Second interview with Mark Koziel

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

We are thrilled to welcome Mark Koziel, CPA, CGMA, as our guest on this episode of The Soul of Enterprise. Mark has recently been appointed as the President and CEO of the American Institute of CPAs (AICPA) and the Association of International Certified Professional Accountants, effective January 2025. Prior to this role, he served as the President and CEO of Allinial Global, an association of independent accounting and advisory firms. With over 25 years of experience in accounting and leadership, Mark has been a consistent advocate for the profession, bringing a global perspective to the evolving landscape of accounting and finance.

In this episode, we delve into Mark’s vision for the future of the accounting profession, discussing the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead. We explore his journey from public accounting to leading major professional organizations, and how his experiences have shaped his perspectives on leadership, innovation, and the role of accountants in today’s dynamic business environment.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• “As a profession we just need to show up and be more positive about who we are. It is the greatest profession in the world.” —Mark Koziel, President of AICPA

• YES — Creating a sense of community is one of the most consistent insights Mark has heard while traveling and listening to AICPA members.

• Mentioned on the show today: Other Comprehensive Basis of Accounting (OCBOA) is a non-GAAP accounting protocol used to generate financial statements. OCBAOA examples include the income tax basis of accounting, the cash basis of accounting, and the modified cash basis of accounting. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/other-comprehensive-basis-of-accounting.asp 

• Also mentioned today: SSARS No. 21 is a Statement on Standards for Accounting and Review Services issued by the AICPA, and it addresses the preparation of financial statements. https://www.aicpa-cima.com/resources/download/aicpa-ssarss-currently-effective 

• “Wouldn’t it be great—Ron and Ed—if we could stop talking about hours as being a gauge of success?” —Mark Koziel

Segment two

• “Please think with us, not like us” is a great phrase that Mark uses and attributes to Ron.

• Many of us here at The Soul of Enterprise are big fans of the TV show “Ted Lasso”. It was great to hear Mark quote Ted (and attribute the quote to Walt Whitman): “Be curious, not judgmental”

• “Technology investments and AI — they should be natural pushes into us doing this because if it’s not and we still come back to this ‘hours times rate’ thing, we’re going to be in trouble.” —Mark Koziel

• TIL Tom Hood started “Finance of the Future” which has become a community of CFOs from some of the largest companies in the United States 

Segment three

• “Show me a firms’s dashboard and I’ll tell you about its culture.” —Ron Baker

• “Overall we can’t keep using [timesheets] as our ultimate measure of value […]. It’s going to be a race to the bottom.” —Mark Koziel

• Regarding burnout in the accounting industry: “If I’m driven by family values and being with family, I’m probably going to want to work less.” —Mark Koziel

• “The burnout diagnosis seems to put the blame on the person rather than the system. And I think that it’s the system that eats the young.” —Ron Baker

Segment four

• It’s much too complex for a tweet, but you need to listen to segment four of the show today when Ed asked Mark about CPE, hours, and how to address the obvious issues.

• You get all of your stuff at the end of the year. W-2. 1099s from a 401k. And so on. There has to be a ChatGPT thing where I just drop and drag all of my PDF files that I have and say, “produce a tax return for me”. Does this already exist?

• A big THANK YOU to Mark Koziel for joining us today! https://www.aicpa-cima.com/news/article/mark-koziel-new-aicpa-cima-ceo 

• Bonus note (reference by Ed during the show): Jamey Johnson singing “The Dollar” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlnYH5Da32A

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #536: Crossing the Threshold — A New Chapter Begins

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Ron and Ed unveil their bold new venture—THRESHOLD. In this episode, they share the vision behind the company, why it matters now, and how it aims to challenge the status quo in advisory and consulting. THRESHOLD is more than a brand—it’s a mindset shift for professionals ready to think beyond billable hours and transactional models. If you’re looking for transformation, not just iteration, this is your call to cross the threshold with us.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• The root of the transformation for Ron and Ed started with a book published in 1999. “The Experience Economy: Work Is Theater & Every Business a Stage” by Joe Pine and James Gilmore https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Theater-Every-Business/dp/0875848192 

• The progression of economic value, as articulated by Pine and Gilmore, outlines how value is created over time, moving from commodities to goods, services, and finally to experiences and transformations. More here: https://worldxo.org/progressioneconomicvalue/ 

• Regarding the progression of economic value: “Recall the Progression of Economic Value given in Chapter 1 and how each higher level of offering is built atop the one below it. Or, to say it differently, each successive offering subsumes the ones below it.” From Joe Pine’s substack at https://transformationsbook.substack.com/p/levels-of-experiences-part-one 

• This is the graph of the progression of economic value referenced by Ron and Ed today on the show (credit to https://worldxo.org/progressioneconomicvalue/)

Segment two

• In the context of the conversation today, initially people moved to goods and services to experiences (think Disneyworld and concerts). Experiences are different because customers pay the business money to spend time with the business. Paying to get into the Disney park, for example.

• An experience can also be something that is not delivered at a particular spot. Virtual reality, home services, and so, are all great examples. The third edition of The Experience Economy lays out different types of experiences that are all memorable to the individual. https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975/ 

• For a transformation to be successful it has to be aspirational in the customer’s mind. The customer is the product (not in a bad way). They are the ones changing so they need to ASPIRE to be the end result of the transformation. 

• Joe Pine is now working on a new book called “The Transformation Economy”. As a part of the book, he has published his journey on substack and you can find it here: https://transformationsbook.substack.com/ 

Segment three

• Ron and Ed referenced this previous show today: Episode #518: Trends in the Transformation Economy with Christophe Jauquet https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/518 

• Ron reference Eataly earlier on the show. You can buy commodities there like pasta and olive oil. You can buy good there as well. In the services space, they have a cafe and restaurants. Now how does Eataly provide a transformation? They have cooking classes. https://www.eataly.com 

• In one of his white papers, Joe Pine, co-author of the Experience Economy book, discussed how time is the key distinction between services and experiences in the Progression of Economic Value. Joe says, "Services are about time well saved while experiences are about time well spent. https://whitehutchinson.com/news/lenews/2022/december/article110.shtml 

Segment four

• Summarized from Joe Pine: When you really look at customer aspirations, those aspirations revolve around being healthy, wealthy, and wiser. What customers really want is health and well being, wisdom and understanding, wealth and prosperity, purpose and meaning.

• These (see above) are universal aspirations. The great part about customers’ desire to be healthier, wealthier, and wiser is that you do not need to gin up demand! Who doesn’t want this?

• Thank you for joining us today. There is a complimentary level available for Threshold. It is the Foundation membership available at this link: https://thresholdnow.com/join 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #535: Juche for Dummies — Why Self-Sufficiency Sucks

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Ron and Ed break down the latest tariff policies of President Donald Trump, offering a free market critique of its implications. They explore how tariffs function as hidden taxes on consumers, challenge the idea of using protectionism as economic strategy, and examine the historical consequences of similar policies.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Literally "subject idea" Juche incorporates the historical materialist ideas of Marxism–Leninism but also strongly emphasizes the individual, the nation state, and national sovereignty. Juche posits that a country will prosper once it has become self-reliant by achieving political, economic, and military independence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche 

• Staying with the theme of Juche: If self-suffienciency worked, North Korea would be Monaco.

• Having Trump Derangement Syndrome (when it comes to tariffs) means you are economically LITERATE. Congratulations.

• “You couldn’t fill a Mini Cooper with economists who agree with tariffs. You just couldn’t.” —Ron Baker

• Ed referenced episode 76, Lessons from the Trading Game, on the show today. Here is the link https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/76 

Segment two

• “In every country it always is and must be the interest of the great body of the people to buy whatever they want of those who sell it cheapest. The proposition is so very manifest, that it seems ridiculous to take any pains to prove it; nor could it ever have been called in question, had not the interested sophistry of merchants and manufacturers confounded the common-sense of mankind.” —Adam Smith, 1776, The Wealth of Nations

• On Juche for Dummies, “I’m sure we are at a trade deficit with some country that’s importing bananas to us. And we then slap a 10% tariff on them because we want bananas?” —Ed Kless

• Referenced on the show today: Economics in One Lesson — The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics by Henry Hazlitt https://www.amazon.com/Economics-One-Lesson-Shortest-Understand/dp/0517548232 

• NAFTA lost 1 million jobs for the US in its first 20 years between 1994 and 2014. That means it took NAFTA two decades to kill as many jobs as we turn naturally IN 18 DAYS.

Segment three

• “In general international deficits and surpluses have had virtually no correlation with the performance of most nation’s economies.” —Thomas Sowell in Basic Economics https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0465060730

• “Read My Lips: Tariffs Are Taxes” by Kevin Williamson https://thedispatch.com/article/trump-tariffs-taxes-housing-prices-lumber/ 

• From the official government website, the Harmonized Tariff Schedule sets out the tariff rates and statistical categories for all merchandise imported into the United States. https://hts.usitc.gov/ 

Segment four

• A great joke from Ron on the show today, “If exports are great and imports are bad then, like Bastiat said, we should sink all the ships at sea.”

• Regarding tariffs and current economic “policy”: All of this boils down to zero sum game thinking, something we have railed against at The Soul of Enterprise for the entirety of our existence.

• Those penguins we mentioned today? Yeah, that’s a real thing. Here’s the article titled “No economy is safe from Trump’s tariffs, even non-economies” https://sherwood.news/world/no-economy-safe-trumps-tariffs-even-non-economies-heard-island/ 

• From Jeffrey Blehar at National Review, “So it is with President Donald Trump who — convinced of his own superior intellect — has crowbarred open a newly delivered crate of ACME Trade Policy, unboxed Peter Navarro circa 1996, and strapped on his goggles and rocket shoes to catch that elusive, slippery trade deficit once and for all.” https://www.nationalreview.com/carnival-of-fools/trumps-cartoon-physics-takes-america-off-the-cliff/ 

• Wile E. Coyote: Genius https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PufFA8kDWFk 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #534: Milton’s Mandate — The Market, Morality, and Money

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode, Ron and Ed dive into one of the most influential and debated essays in business and economic thought: Milton Friedman’s The Social Responsibility of Business Is to Increase Its Profits. Published in The New York Times in 1970, Friedman’s argument that businesses should focus solely on maximizing shareholder value while operating within the law sparked decades of debate about corporate ethics, stakeholder capitalism, and the role of business in society.

Ron and Ed will unpack Friedman’s perspective, discuss its implications for modern businesses, and explore how it contrasts with contemporary views on corporate social responsibility (CSR) and ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) initiatives. Is Friedman’s argument still valid in today’s world, or has the definition of corporate responsibility evolved? Tune in for an insightful discussion on one of the most enduring ideas in free-market economics.

📖 Read Friedman’s original essay: The New York Times

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Originally published on Sept 13, 1970, the basis of our show today is Milton Friedman’s article “The Social Responsibility of Business Is to Increase Its Profits” https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.8Fy6.8Z-P1t4lzAfk&smid=url-share 

• “Businessmen who talk this way (about a social conscience) are unwitting puppets of the intellectual forces that have been undermining the basis of a free society these past decades.” —Milton Friedman

• “What does it mean to say that “business” has responsibilities? Only people can have responsibilities.” —Milton Friedman in 1970 https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.8Fy6.8Z-P1t4lzAfk&smid=url-share 

• A common quote criticizing capitalism, attributed to Herbert Hoover, is: "The only trouble with capitalism is capitalists; they're too damned greedy."

Segment two

• Social responsibilities fall on the individual and not the organization based on Milton Friedman’s 1970 article. Check the image for the details of his writing.

• Friedman could have been more clear in his article and here is part of the section that requires possibly reading it more than once. Link to the full article: https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.8Fy6.8Z-P1t4lzAfk&smid=url-share 

• “What does it mean to say that the corporate executive has a ‘social responsibility’ in his capacity as businessman? If this statement is not pure rhetoric, it must mean that he is to act in some way that is not in the interest of his employers.” —Milton Friedman in 1970 https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.8Fy6.8Z-P1t4lzAfk&smid=url-share 

• “…when the corporate executive imposes taxes and spends the proceeds for ‘social’ purposes. He becomes in effect a public employe, a civil servant, even though he remains in name an employe of private enterprise.” —Milton Friedman

Segment three

• Segment three of the show today starts with a lengthy section from Friedman’s Doctrine beginning with, “ON the grounds of consequences, can the corporate executive in fact discharge his alleged ‘social responsibilities’? On the one hand, suppose he could get away with spending the stockholders’ or customers’ or employes’ money. How is he to know how to spend it?” https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.8Fy6.8Z-P1t4lzAfk&smid=url-share 

• 🤣 🤣 🤣 “We thus have the ironic phenomenon that union leaders—at least in the U.S. —have objected to Government interference with the market far more consistently and courageously than have business leaders.” —Milton Friedman

• “In a free society, it is hard for ‘good’ people to do ‘good,’ but that is a small price to pay for making it hard for ‘evil’ people to do ‘evil,’ especially since one man's good is anther's evil.” —Milton Friedman in 1970

• “So in a way, it’s a marketing expense, which we’ve always accused CSR of being.” —Ron Baker and Ed Kless on corporate social responsibility 

Segment four

• “[Businessmen] are capable of being extremely far‐sighted and clear‐headed in matters that are internal to their businesses. They are incredibly short sighted and muddle‐headed in matters that are outside their businesses but affect the possible survival of business in general.” —Milton Friedman https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.8Fy6.8Z-P1t4lzAfk&smid=url-share 

• Here is the conclusion to Friedman’s Doctrine from 1970: But the doctrine of “social responsibility” taken seriously would extend the scope of the political mechanism to every human activity. It does not differ in philosophy from the most explicitly collectivist doctrine. It differs only by professing to believe that collectivist ends can be attained without collectivist means. That is why, in my book “Capitalism and Freedom,” I have called it a “fundamentally subversive doctrine” in a free society, and have said that in such a society, “there is one and only one social responsibility of business—to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits so long as it stays within the rules of the game, which is to say, engages in open and free competition without deception or fraud.”

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #533: 2025 Tech Trends Report with Greg Tirico

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

With Ron Baker out this week due to a personal matter, Ed Kless is joined by Greg Tirico for a deep dive into the FTSG 2025 Tech Trends Report (available as a free download). Together, they explore 10 provocative takeaways shaping the future of technology—from AI’s evolution into “living intelligence” and action models, to the rise of agentic systems, climate-driven innovation, and the commercial colonization of space. Ed and Greg break down what these shifts mean for business leaders, professionals, and society at large. Expect thoughtful insights, some healthy skepticism, and a few surprises as they navigate the frontier of what’s next.

MORE ABOUT GREG

Greg's official title here at The Soul of Enterprise might be just a step above “intern,” but don’t let that fool you. He’s the behind-the-scenes engine helping drive marketing at The Soul of Enterprise — that is, when we allow him to emerge from the dark room in which he lives and works. In addition to making Ron and Ed look good (arguably his most important job), Greg also runs Working Web Media, bringing years of marketing and tech expertise to the table.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

AI

• Deep Seek and Stanford have both shown that AI models do not need to get larger as previously thought. Think “small language models” instead of LLM (large language models).

• Newer models might be small and less capable but that’s a good thing, especially for mobile devices

• Agentic AI has cemented itself as a trend to watch. This can be thought of as autonomous decision making (or business workflow on steroids)

Metaverse

• Industrial applications remain “just around the corner” and I’m still a bit skeptical

• South Korea Enacts Metaverse Industry Law in February of 2024. The new law both supports and regulates the metaverse, prioritizing permissionless development with oversight after implementation.

• Meta Ray-Ban sunglasses: Meta AI for object detection, capture video, make phone calls, listen to music, and livestream — all for $300

Segment two

Biotechnology

• Real world industrial applications currently in the market:

• crops engineered for climate resilience and higher yields

• engineered microbes produce materials stronger than steel 

• Restaurants serve meat grown from cells rather than raised on farms. 

• Fashion brands sell jackets made from spider silk produced by engineered yeast. 

• Construction companies explore self-healing concrete created by bacteria.

• Beauty products contain proteins designed by AI and grown in fermentation tanks. 

• July 2024: CRISPR-edited seedless blackberries and non-browning avocados enter market trials.

• Medical LLMs used for drug discovery

• CRISPR gene editing: Editas’ EDIT-101, designed to treat Leber congenital amaurosis, is one of the first in vivo CRISPR therapies to restore vision in patients with inherited blindness.

• In vivo: in the living; ex vivo requires stem cells to be modified outside the body and then reintroduced 

• CRISPR modified livestock?

Mobility, Robotics, and Drones

• EVs as mobile power plants. After all, the Tesla power wall is the same battery they put in cars. The Ford F-150 Lightning is the ultimate tailgate machine

• Fun fact: Tesla now has over 60,000 superchargers worldwide at 7,000 locations. There are 11,616 Exxon Mobil gas stations in the United States.

• Software defined cars: NHTSA recalls still happen but the fix is done via software. The recurring revenue model is too lucrative to ignore for automakers

• Autonomous vehicles possibly face more regulatory scrutiny than technological barriers at this point. Waymo is in Phoenix, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Austin with 10 more cities planned this year

• Drones: medical applications both on and off the battlefield; agriculture

• Robots: AI driven domestic robots, “Cobots”, are being produced by Samsung and Switchbot. Moving beyond the vacuum, they can handle air purification, monitor pets, and deliver items to you (beer?)

• 1 in 10 South Korean workers are robots

• Space robots and drones will play a large role in the NASA Artemis project and are already helping to clean up space junk

• Aerial corridors are already a thing in the UAE

Segment three

Computing

• National security depends on computational supremacy. When adversaries can deploy more powerful AI systems faster, they gain advantages in everything from intelligence to weaponry. Building robust computing infrastructure is just as much about maintaining strategic autonomy as it is technological leadership. And this is where quantum computing enters the chat.

• When Google’s 2024 Willow quantum chip completed a problem in five minutes that would take today’s supercomputers 10 septillion years to solve, it sparked equal parts excitement and bewilderment.

• Access to energy and compute will continue to be critical over the next decade

• Biological computing, or biocomputing, uses biological organisms or processes to store, process, and transfer information, encompassing technologies like DNA computing and cellular computing. It aims to harness the power of living systems for computational tasks. 

• In 2023, researchers at Johns Hopkins University outlined a vision for biocom- puters powered by human brain cells in a paper published in Frontiers in Science. Led by Thomas Hartung, the team present- ed a roadmap for “organoid intelligence,” aiming to develop biological computing using 3D cultures of human brain cells.

• Generative UI refers to the use of generative AI to automatically create, adapt, or personalize a user interface (UI) based on real-time inputs and context.

• Context aware earwax

• Living tactical scenario: A gunshot cracks the night. Within seconds, the drones pinpoint the shooter through audio triangulation. The helmets respond, releasing precise doses of performance enhancers to steady hands and sharpen focus. If chemical weapons appear, the neural interface stands ready to inject countermeasures directly into bloodstreams. The soldiers adjust their approach wordlessly, human and machine moving as one. The drones unleash another tactic: They project phantom sounds across the battlefield—helicopter rotors, tank treads, marching boots. The enemy scatters, chasing ghosts. The helmets pick up on rising hostile heart rates as confusion spreads.

Space

• Space is shifting from government-driven to markets-driven. 

• SpaceX conducted 138 launches in 2024; 35 so far this year

• There was a private spacewalk in 2024 conducted by Polaris Dawn

• Vast Space will launch Haven-1 in 2025 — a commercial space station

• Space based manufacturing of pharmaceuticals 

• Cislunar Networking: As we return to the moon, infrastructure like fiber optics and reliable internet will be essential, mirroring Earth’s networks. This presents a significant opportunity to shape the future of lunar communications.

• “If we are to find new frontiers for industry and energy, then the mines of space will provide.” Isaac Asimov, “Foundation and Empire”

Segment four

• Entertainment, Healthcare, and News

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #532: Superabundance Revisited — Our Second Conversation with Gale Pooley

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Join us for an enlightening discussion as we welcome back economist and author Dr. Gale L. Pooley to celebrate the release of his new book. In this episode, we delve deeper into the groundbreaking concepts presented in the book, exploring how human ingenuity and freedom drive resource abundance and economic growth. Dr. Pooley shares new insights and reflections since his last appearance, offering a fresh perspective on the relationship between population dynamics and prosperity. Don’t miss this opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of the principles that challenge conventional views on scarcity and highlight the potential for human creativity to overcome limitations.

MORE ABOUT GALE

Dr. Gale L. Pooley is an American economist, professor, and co-author of Superabundance. He currently teaches U.S. economic history at Utah Tech University and has held academic positions at institutions including Brigham Young University–Hawaii and Alfaisal University in Riyadh. Dr. Pooley is renowned for his work on the concept of abundance and population growth, notably co-authoring the Simon Abundance Index, which measures resource availability relative to population growth. He holds professional designations from the Appraisal Institute, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, and the CCIM Institute.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Gale first joined us for episode 409 and his co-author joined us for episode 418. Here’s a fun trick. Just type The Soul Of Enterprise dot com slash episode number to find any episode. So, thesoulofenterprise.com/409, for example

• Gale has a great list of the three original sins of economics: 1) only atoms can be resources; 2) we live in a world of scarcity; 3) we measure things with money

• Thank you VERY MUCH to Hector Garcia for submitting a question for our guest today. You can submit questions for Ron and Ed on any device using this link https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/questions 

• Here is a GREAT example from Gale on the time price of eggs. They may be technically more expensive in terms of dollars right now but if you shift your perspective, they are more abundant than ever in human history. More here https://galepooley.substack.com/p/egg-perspective 

Segment two

• Gale Pooley and Marian Tupy’s book, Superabundance, is well received on Amazon with about 400 ratings. How are the ideas in Superabundance being received by economists? Gale goes back to the three original sins of economics to reflect on the book’s reception. Here is a link for more info https://www.amazon.com/Superabundance-Population-Innovation-Flourishing-Infinitely/dp/1952223393 

• “CPI (consumer price index) tells you how expensive things have become but then it doesn’t tell you if they have become more or less affordable.” —Gale Pooley

• "A man with one watch knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure," is known as Segal's Law, and it suggests that having multiple sources of information can lead to confusion and uncertainty. 

• Time prices are a better measurement than just money and Superabundance, the book, lays this out. For example: There is more information in the time price of money compared to just money. It is easily calculated. The scientific method uses time. You can use time prices in any country at any time with any product and any currency. —Those are just a few examples. More at this link https://www.amazon.com/Superabundance-Population-Innovation-Flourishing-Infinitely/dp/1952223393 

Segment three

• This is a summary of the start of segment three today (Gale’s actual words are significantly better): When you buy a house, you’re really buying two things: the lot/land and the improvement on that land (otherwise known as the house). In some cases the land is worth 10% of the price and in other cases it is significantly more. The land explains the difference in housing price variability across the country.

• From the concepts in Superabundance, if you look at the TIME PRICE of materials for building a home, it really hasn’t changed that much since the 1960s. In fact, labor is not that much more either. More at this link https://www.amazon.com/Superabundance-Population-Innovation-Flourishing-Infinitely/dp/1952223393 

• To understand TIME PRICES and housing as detailed in the book Superabundance, Gale Pooley (co-author) likes to ask the question: “How much time does it take you to earn the money to make your monthly payment on a per square foot basis?”

• The Jevons paradox, named after the 19th-century economist William Stanley Jevons, suggests that technological advancements that increase the efficiency of resource use can paradoxically lead to increased consumption of that resource, rather than decreased consumption. 

• “AI Just Got 90 To 99.99 Percent Cheaper” by Gale Pooley https://galepooley.substack.com/p/ai-just-got-90-to-9999-percent-cheaper 

Segment four

• “Steve Jobs introduced the Macintosh in 1984 at a retail price of $2,495. At the time unskilled workers were earning around $5.00 per hour, putting the time price at 498 hours. A new iMac can be bought today for $1,299 and unskilled workers are now earning closer to $16.51 per hour, indicating a time price at 78.7 hours.” —Gale Pooley in the article ‘Mac at 40’ https://galepooley.substack.com/p/mac-at-40 

• In his 2004 paper, Nobel laureate William Nordhaus estimated that innovators capture approximately 2.2% of the total surplus from innovation in the first year, due to a combination of instantaneous appropriability and the depreciation of Schumpeterian profits. https://www.nber.org/digest/oct04/who-gains-innovation 

• Royal Caribbean just launched a cruise ship that can hold 8,000 passengers and weighs 250,800 tons. Gale Pooley wrote a GREAT article about this called “Cruise Ship Billionaires” https://galepooley.substack.com/p/cruise-ship-billionaires 

• A big THANK YOU to Gale Pooley, co-author of Superabundance, for joining us today. You can follow Gale on his substack at this link https://galepooley.substack.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #531: The Boardroom Brawl — Will Purpose Stand Tall or Will Profit Take All?

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ron and Ed dive into the long-standing debate: Is the purpose of business to make a profit, or is profit simply the result of fulfilling a deeper mission? Drawing inspiration from the wisdom of Peter Drucker—who famously stated, “There is only one valid definition of business purpose: to create a customer”—they explore the implications of this perspective for entrepreneurs, executives, and professionals.

Does a relentless focus on profit lead to short-termism and ethical compromises? Or is profit the natural outcome of serving customers, creating value, and building a sustainable enterprise? Join us as Ron and Ed unpack these ideas, challenge conventional wisdom, and discuss what this debate means for the future of business.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• You can record and submit questions for future shows using any device. Just visit https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/questions 

• William F. Buckley wrote a single children’s book. He considered it the hardest book he had ever written. https://www.amazon.com/National-Treasury-Classic-Childrens-Literature/dp/096278415X 

• We had a GREAT question submitted today from a children’s book author, Melquea Smith. Check out some of her work here https://www.prettykittypaintings.com/ 

• Speaking of children’s books, Ron and Ed had the pleasure of interviewing Connor Boyack on episode 292. He is the author of the Tuttle Twins books. https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/tsoe/connor-boyack-tuttle-twins 

• Thank you Peter McCleskey for the question today! We’ve dedicated almost the entire show to the idea that profits are the result of a business and not the purpose. But Peter had other thoughts and we TRULY appreciate it. So much so that his question is the basis for our show today. 

Segment two

• “Purpose is bigger than tactics. Purpose is bigger than strategy. It is a choice to pursue your destiny, the ultimate destination for yourself and the organization you lead.” —from Purpose: The Starting Point of Great Companies by Nikos Mourkogiannis https://www.amazon.com/Purpose-Starting-Point-Great-Companies/dp/0230605303  

• TIL Peter Drucker coined the term “profit center” and wrote, years later, that he was ashamed of it.

• “Profit is the oxygen for the body but it’s not the point of life.” —Ron Baker on today’s show (possibly non-attributed)

• “Business must be run at a profit, else it will die. But when anyone tries to run a business solely for profit, then also the business must die, for it no longer has a reason for existence.” —Henry Ford

• “There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else.” —Sam Walton

Segment three

• Ed mentioned the 7-s framework on the show today. Introduced by McKinsey in the 1970’s, here is some historical background on the model: https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/enduring-ideas-the-7-s-framework 

• Stanley Marcus, the former president and chairman of the board of Neiman Marcus, famously said "Consumers are statistics. Customers are people,"

• Here’s a fun exercise: How much would you have to be paid to not be able to use your iPhone ever again? THINK about that. There’s is a flip answer (thank goodness!) but what is your real number?

• Robert Wood Johnson, former chairman of JNJ and a member of the Company’s founding family, crafted the JNJ Credo himself in 1943. More here and in the image (which is the credo carved in stone at the JNJ headquarters) https://www.jnj.com/our-credo 

Segment four

• Ron and Ed talked about the seven internal responsibilities outlined in “Business as a Calling: Work and the Examined Life” by Michael Novak https://www.amazon.com/Business-Calling-Work-Examined-Life/dp/0684827484 

• Also reference in segment four today, “Wealth’s Way — The Wisdom and Wonders of Shareholder Capitalism” which is episode 488 of The Soul of Enterprise https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/488 

• Ron and Ed mentioned their new venture today towards the end of the show. They are looking forward to working more closely with people who are interested. Learn more at https://thresholdnow.com/ and hop on the free membership level.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.