Episode #593 - Pricing AI Credit: Activity-based costing in a hoodie

Artificial intelligence vendors love to talk about tokens and credits, but are these pricing models really helping customers—or simply obscuring the true cost of AI? In this episode, Ron and Ed take aim at the growing trend of token-based pricing, arguing that it shifts uncertainty and risk from providers to customers while creating unnecessary complexity. Drawing on insights from pricing experts, recent industry commentary, and their own experiences, they examine why cost-based pricing has long been discredited and why customer value—not vendor costs—should determine price.

The conversation explores alternative approaches to AI pricing, including tiered models based on speed, complexity, and service levels. Along the way, Ron, Ed, and Greg discuss the rapid decline in AI infrastructure costs, the emergence of lower-cost large language models, and why today’s premium-priced AI services may face the same economic pressures that have driven technology costs downward for decades. If you’ve ever wondered whether AI credits are the modern equivalent of arcade tokens, this episode offers a provocative look at where AI pricing is headed—and why customer experience should be at the center of it.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Uber burned through their entire AI budget for the year in April https://finance.yahoo.com/sectors/technology/articles/uber-burned-entire-2026-ai-180347400.html

• What is token maxxing with respect to AI? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_maxxing 

• On the emerging pricing for AI models: “If there’s anything you and I have railed against for 30 years, it’s cost plus pricing.” —Ed Kless

• On AI pricing workarounds: “When your pricing model gets so friggin’ complicated that there is a shadow market, you’re out of control!” —Ron Baker

Segment two

• AI Credit Monetization: From Hype to Concrete Blueprint by Michael Mansard of Zuora https://www.zuora.com/resource/ai-credit-monetization-from-hype-to-concrete-blueprint/

• One of the big takeaways from the Zuora white paper: Many companies are adopting AI credits because competitors are doing it, not because their business actually needs them.

• “Activity based accounting is just cost accounting with its own wacky assumptions. It’s all bad math.” —Ron Baker 

• “I’ve spent decades arguing against cost-plus pricing, and token-based pricing is simply cost-plus. So when I say token-based pricing makes sense right now, I want you to understand how much it pains me to type that.” The Case for Token-Based Pricing by Mark Stiving, Ph.D. (friend of the show) https://impactpricing.substack.com/p/the-case-for-token-based-pricing 

Segment three

• The Strategy and Tactics of Pricing: A Guide to Growing More Profitably by Thomas T. Nagle, John Hogan, and Joseph Zale https://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Tactics-Pricing-Growing-Profitably/dp/0136106811 

• From The Strategy and Tactics of Pricing: “The job of financial management is not to insist that prices recover costs. It is to insist that costs are incurred only to make offerings that can be priced profitably given their value to customers.” https://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Tactics-Pricing-Growing-Profitably/dp/0136106811

• Hard to capture in notes as a tweet but Ron had a fascinating conversation with ChatGPT about why it can’t price based on value instead of AI credits. Check out segment three for his back and forth.

Segment four

• Camtasia (video editing software) sent Ed an email this week letting him know that AI features are unlimited on his pricing plan. So….someone figured it out :) 

• “The AI Race Isn’t About Electricity” by Michael Hochberg https://thedispatch.com/article/artificial-intelligence-silicon-chips-asic/ 

• Nvidia’s official corporate timeline (since 1993) https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/about-nvidia/corporate-timeline/ 

• “I think these AI companies should create a better customer experience and capture customers first. Then optimize the economics later. It’s not like they’re not sitting on a ton of money.” —Ron Baker

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #592 - Smart People, Silly Systems: With Debra Kilsheimer

Debra Kilsheimer joins Ron and Ed for a lively discussion about leadership, culture, AI, persuasion, human nature, and the curious ability of professionals to simultaneously complain about a problem and defend the system causing it.

We'll also explore what wisdom comes with experience, why logic is a surprisingly ineffective tool for changing minds, and whether the accounting profession is finally approaching an inflection point—or just finding new ways to avoid one.

And yes, at some point we'll probably talk about the Pink Cadillac.

Debra's Bio
Debra Kilsheimer is what happens when you combine a CPA, a stand-up comic, a leadership coach, a technology enthusiast, and enough energy to power a small city. A longtime champion of helping accountants become better leaders, communicators, and human beings, Debra has spent years challenging firms to stop doing things simply because "that's the way we've always done it." 

She's a speaker, consultant, podcaster, AI enthusiast, former Mary Kay superstar, and one of the few people who can simultaneously make you laugh, think, and question your entire business model. She's a friend of the show, and recently returned from Scaling New Heights, where she was recognized for her work in AI innovation.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Debra just returned from Scaling New Heights where she was a main stage speaker https://www.woodard.com/speaker-listing-scaling-new-heights-2026 

• On resistance to change in the accounting industry: “What’s the WORST thing that can happen if you make a mistake as an accountant? You pay a fine.” —Debra Kilsheimer

• As a CPA, Debra did the tax returns for a Mary Kay salesperson. Thinking about leaving the accounting industry, Debra made the transition to Mary Kay early in her career. And yes, a pink Cadillac was involved.

• Today I learned, on the basis of sales commissions, Mary Kay claims to have created more female millionaires than any other organization in the United States

Segment two

• Why did Mary Kay choose pink? In the 1960s, most American bathrooms were white. So pink was chosen for the Company's packaging to give women beauty products they could keep conveniently on their bathroom counters.

• Interesting conversational theme from Scaling New Heights this year: It mostly focused on AI and the reticence or fear around adoption. In other words, many accounting professionals are excited but do not know where to begin.

• On magic vs logic work (with a hat tip to Tim Williams): “How are we creating additional value for those that we serve, and how can we use AI to do that?” —Ed Kless

Segment three

• Ron: “We spend hardly any time discontinuing obsolete practices. Why do you think that is?”
  Debra: “Well, they’re easy. I’m used to doing it like that. Making a change is hard.”

• Did you see new tech at Scaling New Heights that excited you? “People are getting really excited about the AI GLs that are coming out.” —Debra Kilsheimer

• Rise2040: Co-creating our profession’s future https://www.aicpa-cima.com/advocacy/landing/rise2040 

• How do we recruit new accountants with a message on a wrapped car? “If you want to make someone’s dreams come true, follow me!” —Debra Kilsheimer

Segment four

• GetBlazr is a new venture from Debra Kilsheimer. Check it out here: https://getblazr.ai/ 

• “I love being an accountant. I love it. I do think we change lives. So, I just want to make it more fun for the people on the side, the customers.” —Debra Kilsheimer 

• A big THANK YOU to Debra Kilsheimer for joining us today. You can find her on LinkedIn at this link https://www.linkedin.com/in/debliberate 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #591 - Revolutionary Roundup: John Adams, the Semiquincentennial, and a Few Asides

Ron and Ed turn their attention to the upcoming Semiquintcentennial, with a little theatrical flair thrown in from Ed and his turn as John Adams in 1776. Along the way, they reflect on the ideas, personalities, and historical drama surrounding America’s 250th anniversary—and what those themes might still teach us about leadership, liberty, and public life today. If time permits, they’ll also weigh in on a few timely developments in the accounting profession and the ever-fascinating world of pricing.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• The Semiquincentennial is the official 250th anniversary of the United States, marking the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 2026. Also known as the Quarter Millennium.

• 1776 (musical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1776_(musical) 

• Yes, Thomas Jefferson did include a fiery, 168-word anti-slavery passage in his initial draft of the Declaration of Independence, but it was removed by the Continental Congress before the document was finalized. https://www.history.com/articles/declaration-of-independence-deleted-anti-slavery-clause-jefferson 

• “Why anyone would want to leave Britain is beyond us.” America at 250 from The Economist https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/2016300249208242628 

• Is it unalienable or inalienable? https://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/unalienable.html 

Segment two

• The actor who played John Adams in the original Broadway production of 1776, William Daniels (later famous as Mr. Feeny on Boy Meets World), was nominated for a Tony Award—but he actually declined the nomination because he felt the entire cast deserved recognition rather than just him. It's one of the rare instances of a performer turning down a Tony nomination.

• The Americans Who Risked Everything https://www.101bananas.com/library2/limbaugh.html 

• 18 were under 40 years old, 3 were under 20. What are we talking about? The signers of the Declaration of Independence 

• Evidence heavily points to Francis Hopkinson, a signer of the Declaration of Independence and a delegate from New Jersey, as the designer of the American flag. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/betsy-ross-likely-didnt-sew-the-first-us-flag 

Segment three

• “A land, perhaps, the only one in the universe, in which political or civil liberty is the very end and scope of the constitution.” —Sir William Blackstone

• “The American, is the Englishman left to himself.” —Alexis de Tocqueville

• Liberty “can be lost, and it will be, if the time ever comes when these documents are regarded not as the supreme expression of our profound belief, but merely as curiosities in glass cases.” —Harry Truman

• “The President himself is no more than a representative of public opinion at the time of his election; and as public opinion is subject to great and frequent fluctuations, he must accommodate his policy to them; or the people will speedily give him a successor; or either House of Congress will effectually control his power.” —John Quincy Adams https://lonang.com/library/reference/jqadams-jubilee-constitution-1839/ 

• The "original" First Amendment passed by Congress in 1789 was an unratified proposal detailing a formula to continuously increase the size of the House of Representatives as the population grew. Because it failed to secure enough state ratifications, the "third" proposed amendment regarding religious, speech, and press freedoms became today's First Amendment to the United States Constitution. https://archivesfoundation.org/newsletter/10-bor-facts/ 

• “What the Founders’ Drinking Habits Have to Do with Gun Rights” by Charles C. W. Cooke https://www.nationalreview.com/2026/03/what-the-founders-drinking-habits-have-to-do-with-gun-rights/ 

Segment four

• Timeline of the American Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_American_Revolution 

• Lifelong frenemies Thomas Jefferson and John Adams died on the same day—July 4, 1826, exactly 50 years after the Declaration of Independence

• “It had about it nothing of the lawless and disordered nature of a riotous insurrection. It was maintained on a plane which rises above the ordinary conception of rebellion. It was in no sense a radical movement but took on the dignity of a resistance to illegal usurpations.” —President Calvin Coolidge's 1926 speech on the 150th Anniversary

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #590 - Security, Scale, and Trust: A Conversation with Summit’s Shannon Kaiser

As part of our new partnership with Summit, Ron and Ed welcome Shannon Kaiser, a technology leader whose career spans cloud infrastructure, cybersecurity, application hosting, and managed services. Shannon shares how Summit helps organizations navigate the increasingly complex world of IT while maintaining the security, reliability, and performance businesses depend on every day.

About Shannon Kaiser
Shannon Kaiser is General Manager of Application Hosting at Summit and a veteran technology executive with extensive experience in cloud infrastructure, cybersecurity, application delivery, and managed services. Having led engineering, operations, and technology teams throughout his career, Shannon focuses on helping organizations build secure, scalable environments that support business growth while reducing operational risk.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Welcome to The Soul of Enterprise, Shannon Kaiser! Shannon is General Manager of Application Hosting at Summit. https://summithq.com/ 

• What belief about business did Shannon hold in his 20s and has now completely abandoned? “That business was only about the dollars and cents.”

• What do most accounting firm leaders consistently get wrong about technology? “That they think they can consume it as individual tools.”

• What business or technology cliche would you like to see retired immediately? “That technology makes us more efficient”

• What’s your approach to AI? Do you see this as utopia, or dystopia? “I think that the amount of productivity we will get from these tools will be amazing. […] We are not prepared for what is actually happening in real time today.”

Segment two

• “Technology is a way to build trust, continuity, operationally, and the ability to continue to service.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

• “The biggest misconception is that risk is a technology problem. Hollywood has taught us that there are hackers behind keyboards in dark rooms typing furiously at their keyboard.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

• On why ransomware attacks are prevalent: “It isn’t the people per se. It’s the status quo and policy that the people are following and the lack of rigor in reviewing it.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

Segment three

• Life After Google by George Gilder https://www.amazon.com/Life-After-Google-Blockchain-Economy/dp/1621575764 

• The three pieces to good system access and passwords: something you know, something you have, and something you are

• Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI by Ethan Mollick https://www.amazon.com/Co-Intelligence-Living-Working-Ethan-Mollick/dp/059371671X 

• “Over the next five years this isn’t going to be just about adopting AI. It’s going to be about how we govern it.” —Shannon Kaiser, Summit

• From Shannon Kaiser as the AI tip of the day: Before you accept any answer, always ask your AI, “What else do you need to be good?”

Segment four

• From Ed Kless on project management: “The number one reason for project failure is that very rarely is a project actually properly initiated.” 

• From Ed again on project management: “Most people want to compress the planning process into a shorter time period because they want to get to execution. Then they execute. Then after that, there’s this really long phase called fix-it.”

• A big THANK YOU to Shannon Kaiser for joining us today! Shannon is the General Manager, Application Hosting at Summit. Learn more at this link https://summithq.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.