Episode #565 - Rethinking the P in PE: Interview with Brent Beshore

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Ron and Ed sit down with Brent Beshore, founder and CEO of Permanent Equity, to explore a radical rethinking of what “private equity” can mean. Instead of the typical buy-fix-flip model, Beshore’s firm takes a generational approach which involves acquiring businesses to own indefinitely, building value through trust, stewardship, and patient capital.

They discuss why short-term thinking often erodes lasting wealth, how culture can be a company’s greatest moat, and what it takes to invest with humility in a world obsessed with speed. This is private equity with a soul, or as Brent might say, the long-term bet on human potential.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Today we are speaking with Brent Beshore! He is the founder & CEO of Permanent Equity (est. 2007) and has built his firm with a “buy & hold” mindset for founder-owned companies https://www.permanentequity.com/brent-beshore 

• Traditional private equity funds operate on 7–10 year cycles. Brent is best known for breaking the traditional private-equity model with his “30-year window”

• “Deep Roots, Hard Looks, and Change” - read Brent’s 2024 annual letter https://www.permanentequity.com/content/2024-annual-letter 

• “Stewarding companies that care what happens next” is the leading line from the Permanent Equity homepage https://www.permanentequity.com/ 

Segment two

• The Messy Marketplace is a book by Brent Beshore that talks a bit about how selling a company involves complex motives and emotions for the owner, not just the price. https://www.permanentequity.com/the-messy-marketplace 

• “Most private equity is buy, lever, strip, and flip. That’s not investing. That’s engineering a spreadsheet.” —Brent Beshore, Founder of Permanent Equity

• “Be high integrity and a lot of things just take care of themselves.” —Brent Beshore

• On the show today Brent said, “We were one of the first people on the internet to start writing about buying and selling small businesses.” And you can find that writing here https://www.permanentequity.com/content 

Segment three

• “Why We Love To Buy Boring Businesses” by Brent Beshore at Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/brentbeshore/2015/09/17/why-we-love-to-buy-boring-businesses/ 

• More on Brent’s view of boring businesses: “Goodbye Boring Businesses. We Invest in Companies that Care what Happens Next” https://www.permanentequity.com/content/goodbye-boring-businesses-we-invest-in-companies-that-care-what-happens-next 

• “I hate Sarbanes-Oxley. I think it’s the dumbest law ever passed by Congress. Right up there with the Jones Act.” —Ron Baker

• “We’re big fans of accountants. Financial statements are the language of business.” —Brent Beshore

Segment four

• From Brent’s annual letter last year, “My guess is that 2025 will mark the beginning of widely applicable and highly valuable AI becoming available for those who are paying attention.” But whether or not he still agrees might surprise you. https://www.permanentequity.com/content/2024-annual-letter 

• On the state of AI today, “It’s not capable of replacing human judgement.” —Brent Beshore

• Main Street Summit is Brent’s incredible 3-day festival that brings the smartest minds together to speak to topics important to the small and medium sized business community. https://www.mainstreetsummit.com/ 

• A big THANK YOU to Brent Beshore for joining us today. Permanent Equity is the name of the firm and, as referenced several times today, their content is fantastic! Read more here https://www.permanentequity.com/content 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #564 - 10x Joe: When Practice Meets Obsession - Tenth interview with Joe Woodard

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

Ron and Ed welcome back Joe Woodard — for the tenth time. Over the years, Joe has joined The Soul of Enterprise to challenge the accounting profession’s comfort zone, rethink practice models, and remind everyone that transformation is never “done.”

In this milestone conversation, they revisit the evolution of Woodard’s mission to help accounting professionals build healthier, more human-centered firms, and how the journey from technician to transformer keeps unfolding. Expect reflection, a few friendly jabs, and, as always, big ideas about the future of advisory work.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Joe Woodard is back. Let’s get right to it. He’s been using his Vision Pro more and more often. And it has practical purposes. He does WORK ON IT! 

• When comparing time spent, Joe is spending more time on the Oculus (Meta Quest) than the Vision Pro. It’s not a better device necessarily but the ecosystem is more robust. Black Phone (the new show) is a great example of something Joe has been enjoying on the Oculus.

• On “AI from the ground up accounting systems”… They are called native AI general ledger solutions. Here is a quick overview from Digits (one of the native AI examples) https://digits.com/blog/ai-accounting-benefits 

Segment two

• Are the native AI GL products truly a disruptive technology that could pose a threat to Intuit or Xero? Yes, they could. (“Could” is doing a bit of work in that response but it is worth watching)

• Joe Woodard and Heather Satterley have talked about some of Inuit’s recent movements on their podcast, the Woodard Report Podcast. Take a listen here: https://www.woodard.com/podcast 

• Inuit Accountant Suite was announced recently at Intuit Connect. Here is more information from Woodard: https://report.woodard.com/articles/intuit-announces-the-new-accountant-suite-at-intuit-connect-fpwr 

Segment three

• What AI tools has Joe been personally using lately? A great quote from Joe: “I haven’t Google’ed anything in months”. 

• AI and human editorial has become an important tool for the Woodard Report. All use of AI is disclosed with dozens and dozens of rules to help guide the human editorial staff to a refined, finished article. https://report.woodard.com/articles 

• Just this week, Joe has been experimenting with Articulate 360 https://www.articulate.com/360/ 

• For a browser, Joe is using Microsoft Edge with Copilot. There are several examples of AI-first browsers out there today from Perplexity to OpenAI to Chrome with Gemini and Edge with Copilot

Segment four

• “Culture emerges from the system.” —Ron Baker

• “Culture begins with vision, mission, and purpose.” —Joe Woodard

• A big THANK YOU to Joe Woodard for joining us for a 10th TIME!!! Scaling New Heights is about six months away. Check out more at this link https://www.woodard.com/scaling-new-heights-2026 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #563 - Apples, Oranges, and the Illusion of Measurement

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this conversation, Ron and Ed take a close look at economist Russ Roberts’ critique of utilitarianism. Can moral choices can be reduced to calculations of pleasure and pain? "No," says Roberts (and say Ron and Ed). Drawing on Roberts’ essay Apples and Oranges, they explore why life’s most important questions resist tidy arithmetic.

Is it possible to weigh justice against joy? Or kindness against efficiency? Ron and Ed unpack the limits of the ledger, where human dignity, love, and meaning refuse to fit neatly into the spreadsheet.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• This is the Russ Roberts’ article that inspired the show today https://russroberts.medium.com/apples-and-oranges-a-critique-of-utilitarianism-part-i-60668ee32488 

• “Statistics is born”….from the Russ Roberts’ article https://russroberts.medium.com/apples-and-oranges-a-critique-of-utilitarianism-part-i-60668ee32488 (see image below)

• “And now, economics is born”…from the Russ Roberts’ article https://russroberts.medium.com/apples-and-oranges-a-critique-of-utilitarianism-part-i-60668ee32488 (see image below)

• “Accounting is born”…from the Russ Roberts’ article https://russroberts.medium.com/apples-and-oranges-a-critique-of-utilitarianism-part-i-60668ee32488 (see image below)

Segment two

• According to Rory Sutherland, creatives often have to run ideas by the "financial suits" (finance departments/accountants) because of a prevailing, yet flawed, business philosophy that equates value creation only with what can be easily measured and quantified in a spreadsheet

• Uncharitable: How Restraints on Nonprofits Undermine Their Potential https://www.amazon.com/Uncharitable-Restraints-Nonprofits-Undermine-Potential/dp/1684581249 

• Ed circled the phrase “Dignity isn’t in the data set” about 10 times while he was reading the Russ Roberts article https://russroberts.medium.com/apples-and-oranges-a-critique-of-utilitarianism-part-i-60668ee32488 

• Here is some background on the “calculus of happiness” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicific_calculus

Segment three

• Today I learned that “food insecurity” is a term defined by the U.S. Department of Agriculture that refers to a lack of consistent access to enough food for an active, healthy life. However, “active, healthy life” is a bit, shall we say, ambiguous? https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security  

• Here are the six variables Bentham used to try and calculate the value of happiness (see images below)

• "Pain is just negative pleasure" is a phrase commonly used by Russ Roberts

• Tesla says shareholders approve Musk’s $1 trillion pay plan with over 75% voting in favor https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/06/tesla-shareholders-musk-pay.html 

Segment four

• Scroogenomics: Why You Shouldn't Buy Presents for the Holidays https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691142645/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0691142645&linkCode=as2&tag=verainst-20&linkId=6ZHK2PZTM6R74NCR 

• From the Russ Roberts article on the show today: “When you are deciding how to spend your charitable contributions, try to find out what the impact is on the people you are trying to help. […] — charity should help people not merely signal virtue or bring comfort to the giver.” https://russroberts.medium.com/apples-and-oranges-a-critique-of-utilitarianism-part-i-60668ee32488 

• The conclusion of the article today is profound. “Too much of what matters to us, is outside of any imaginable mathematics, real or imagined.”

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Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #562 - Phinance, Fans & Fun: The Beancounter Behind the Bananas: Interview with Tim Naddy

NEW SHOW FEATURE: We are now LIVE streaming our shows. Want to join us live? Just click this link every Friday at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Tim Naddy — CPA, educator, entrepreneur, author-in-the-making — who serves as Vice President of Finance for the Savannah Bananas, a team that’s rewriting the rulebook on sports entertainment.

Tim walks us through how a seemingly wild concept (a baseball team with full-on live-show energy) becomes a serious business by blending financial discipline with big ideas. He unpacks the “diamond and dugout” finance model, the decision to keep merchandise separate from operations, and how the organization turned unlimited food and fan-first pricing into measurable growth.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Who and WHAT are the Savannah Bananas? https://thesavannahbananas.com/about_us/ 

• Ed was reminded of The King and His Court / Eddie Feigner when he was first introduced to the Savannah Bananas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Feigner 

• The Banana Ball Championship League is an exhibition league for professional players that was founded by the Savannah Bananas in 2022. The league currently has 6 teams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Ball 

• The Savannah Bananas are decidedly NOT like the Harlem Globetrotters. In fact, the only thing that is fixed for Banana Ball is everything. EXCEPT the actual athletic competition. The game play is legitimate and the outcome is unknown.

Segment two

• Tim Naddy started his career at PWC. Now he is with the Savannah Bananas. That’s practically the same thing, right???

• “How the Savannah Bananas’ Dr. Tim Naddy Starts His Day” https://www.cfo.com/news/the-6-am-cfo-how-the-savannah-bananas-dr-tim-naddy-starts-his-day/712873/ 

• Oh yeah, and Tim teaches a managerial accounting class at an art school. More specifically, he is a Professor at the Savannah College of Art and Design. Go Bees!

• Hot tip: Keep an eye out for Dr. Tim Naddy’s book. Expect to start hearing about it in March of next year. Mark your calendar!

• “Our team is cross-trained in what I call the diamond and dugout areas of our business. Diamond is baseball, and dugout is everything else, like game operations and food and beverage.” —Dr. Tim Naddy from the article at this link https://www.cfo.com/news/savannah-bananas-tim-naddy-jesse-cole-jared-orton-finanically-preparing-for-their-2025-season/743813/ 

Segment three

• In case you missed this during the show… Yes, Savannah Bananas home games include all-you-can-eat food and drinks with the price of admission. The included items are typically hot dogs, hamburgers, chicken sandwiches, popcorn, chips, cookies, soda, and water. https://thesavannahbananas.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/The-savannah-bananas.pdf 

• Confused about Banana Ball rules? The league has you covered with a great video. More here: https://bananaball.com/rules/

• “Prices do not come from your cost but prices justify the expenditure of your costs.” —Ed Kless on The Soul of Enterprise

• You can get Savannah Bananas tickets through the official Banana Ball Ticket Lottery https://thesavannahbananas.com/tickets/ 

• Have you ever learned a new word and seen it everywhere? This phenomenon is known as the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon or the frequency illusion https://www.sciencealert.com/you-know-how-when-you-learn-a-new-word-you-see-it-everywhere-here-s-why 

Segment four

• All you can eat food at Savannah Banana home games was not necessarily something that was planned. But what do you think fans do with the extra dollars? Many of them buy merch. Plus, their kids are well fed instead of grumpy. For Tim it’s all about putting a GREAT experience in front of the fans. “The affordability is part of the reason why we resonate so deeply…” —Dr. Tim Naddy

• YES! Dr. Tim Naddy did it today. I didn’t think he would but it absolutely made my day. What did he do? He quoted Arrested Development with “There’s always money in the banana stand.”

• A big THANK YOU to Dr. Tim Naddy for joining us today. There is no cost to join the ticket lottery to see the Savannah Bananas. Here is the link: https://thesavannahbananas.com/tickets/

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.