Episode #314: Third Interview with Mark Koziel

Ron and Ed are delighted to welcome back Mark Koziel, this time in his new capacity as President and CEO at Allinial Global. Mark is a CPA, CGMA in the U.S. with over 20 years of experience in accounting, management, consulting, and advocacy.

A Bit More About Mark:
Today, Mark Koziel is the President and CEO of Allinial Global. Previously he was Executive Vice President – Firm Services for the American Institute of CPAs. He leads the Private Companies Practice Section (PCPS), Firm Relationship Management, Small Firms, Diversity & Inclusion, Young Member Initiatives, Technical Hotline and Center for Plain English Accounting.

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

• Mark, I guess we can also say that you are now once again a fellow of the VeraSage Institute. You were a fellow formally but then your duties at the AICPA precluded you from holding that esteemed title but we kept the spot warm for you.

• Mark, let's start here. What have we learned about the accounting profession in 2020? I mean, we could spend the whole show on that, right?

• Ron refers to them as the front line, from a business perspective and continue to be. I think it was you who first said that you were having conversations with people as late as February, especially tax partners, who were saying there's no way that I could run my firm remotely and then six weeks later, bang you're all remote, now what?

• Well, let's back up a second. Tell us about your new role at Allinial Global. First of all, for those of our listeners who do not know what Allinial Global is, tell us what that is, and then why you're so excited to be a part of it.

• So Allinial actually holds the client relationship in a lot of those case. That's interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

• Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. Now, where you're going with that. What attracted you to Allinial Global was it the fact that they had some of those things already in place or who were the member firms, that kind of thing?

• Well that's great. Well we're definitely want to hear more about that, and I'm glad that the conversations that you're having are even to the point of talking about subscription pricing, huh?

• Yeah, they do have to be the right options. That video, and we've had Dan Ariely on the show [Episode #43], is just jaw dropping every time I play it, and people who've seen it for the first time, you can just see their head begin to explode. Like, wait a minute, you actually changed the revenue mix and the profit because of having a choice that nobody picked, really? Really good stuff. So, what's your first hundred days? Well, not quite 100 days yet. Are you still getting your sea legs with it?

• Interesting. So I'm curious, from a process standpoint, how did you do that? Did you develop a questionnaire? Or did you just kind of go in freeform and say I'm just going to have a conversation and listen?

• I like that. Okay, so their dues are based on their revenue. So what you're saying is, “Hey, I'm going to help you double your revenue. Even better, I'm going to double your revenue and do it profitably, so that you grow profit. And even better, you're going to work less.”

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

• Welcome back everybody. We're here with Mark Koziel, president and CEO Allinial global, and Mark, you’d probably expect a recovering CPA to talk to you about accounting, but I'm not. I want to take you back to a cigar bar in Indianapolis. I think it was when you dropped on me this entrepreneurial leap that you had in mind. And then I think by the time we met the next time, it might have been New York, you had taken that leap. So tell me about your’s and your wife, Maryann's, leap to entrepreneurship [Craft’d].

• I bet. Are you able to let people in with masks, social distancing, and all that?

• How do you decide which wines to carry?

• That has become the new hip thing to do. You know, sports celebrities, actors, used to buy restaurants. Now they buy wineries. I mean, there's I think there's over 300 wineries in Sonoma, and over 600 now in Napa, which is just outrageous when you think about it, every bit of land here is being turned into vineyards. It's just incredible. So tell me what wines you have run across that you love, or that were kind of unexpected or that you didn't know about before?

• Yeah, because you did go to Lasseter, Pixar’s John Lasseter. And that's like 15 miles from my house and you liked it. It was a great one, you said

• Yeah, there's a lot out here that do the blending. And that is really an art, it’s amazing.

• What's your geographical reach? I mean, do you carry wines from around the world? Are there hotspots that are better sellers than others?

• Do you guy’s serve food?

• Yeah, a lot of people don't want to deal with the health department so they don't even bother serving food. You can't even get hors d’oeuvres or cheese and crackers or something. So probably not you because you're a recovering CPA, but has owning a business changed your perspective at all on the CPA/customer relationship?

• Now, would that be Cuban cigars?

• That's awesome. So you like being an entrepreneur? It's been fun so far?

• What's the virtual wine tastings been like? How is that going? Because that seems weird, but I could see how it could be pretty neat, actually.

• Did you do the Sideways tour?

• Yeah, that movie killed the sales of Merlot.

Ed’s Questions: Third Segment

• And we are back with Mark Koziel with Allinial Global, and Mark before we get back to accounting, I need to ask you just a follow up to Ron's question, does your wife's business have a subscription?

• I may have told you this, we had a local restaurant here, it's called Destinations Wine Bar, they do sell food. But how they really have survived through the pandemic is they had wine storage lockers that they had as part of their subscription. So you could store your wine there. And that, you know, people are like, No, that's okay, just leave it there, even though they were closed for a while. Pretty cool idea. So let's talk a little bit about that. The business model changes that you're trying to implement with Allinial Global, subscription obviously, being one of them. What about things like that have really fallen off our radar, like machine learning and AI? Have they gotten to the point where they are just part of what we know, And we're not talking about them because they're embedded? Or were they pushed off because of COVID?

• Is there a problem with that? One of the things that I think even Botkeeper got involved with is when you shift stuff overseas, do you have to let the customer know that you're doing that?

• So as you've said, you're through about 140, or so, of your member firms, about halfway, is that right? What surprised you with those conversations, did anything take you by surprise, like, wow, I didn't realize that so many firms were here or behind or ahead, anything shocking?

• That is really interesting. And is the timesheet, unfortunately, still universal globally as well, or have people getting away from that?

• You spurred me on to mention something to you. Ron and I have done a lot of work with the bookkeepers in Canada over the last decade or so. And one of the things that we repeat over and over again, is that we think that the bookkeepers in Canada, first of all, they're far ahead of the bookkeepers in the United States, for whatever reason. In fact, they're even ahead, Ron and I think, of the accountants in the US. What are you seeing with regard to the para-professionals internationally? Are you seeing similar trends like that? Or is it more like Canada or more like the US?

• Yeah, that's what's so interesting, the bookkeepers that we've taught in Canada do that same thing, they actually are shifting to advisory, which is pretty amazing, at least the group that we have been working with.

• Yeah, we had a great conversation with the Chief Technology Officer of Sage, Aaron Harris [Episode #306], who I know you know, and he was talking about the same thing, that one of the things that we're learning inside Sage from an artificial intelligence standpoint and machine learning standpoint is the leverage that we can take, certainly keeping the data anonymous so that we're not sharing other people's data, But the insights that we're able to get with regard to transactions in the marketplace, and what's happening in the marketplace, is really incredible. The data is like oil, it's becoming almost as worth as much as the actual service itself.

• Well, that's great. We're really excited for you, so after you get through this, you're going to put together some kind of a plan to say, and then, you know, here's where you're going to take this long term with Allinial Global, but you’re still in that learning phase. But the next step is to come up with a plan, right?

• Well, I really look forward to see what you're going to do with that organization. I had some familiarity with them, did some work before you got on board and really like the firms that I did talk to so really looking forward to the next phase, but we are up against our break already. And Ron's going take you home for the fourth segment. But I want to thank you once again for being on the show and hope to have you back at a future point. I'm sure we will.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• Welcome back everybody. We're here with Mark Koziel. And Mark, you've got a worldwide perspective. Have you seen firms in different countries handling the COVID crisis differently or more innovatively? Have you learned anything about how they're dealing with it outside of the US?

• Did they make the shift as quick to remote work as a lot of firms here did?

• Yeah, I'm hoping the Results Only Work Environment comes out of this crisis as a testable, viable model. But the other thing I wanted to ask you about, given the worldwide view that you have, as you know we have a VeraSage colleague, Tim Williams, from the advertising space, he wrote a great book called Positioning for Professionals. He's a big believer in niching. Really putting your firm in a box, if you will; he likes to say, no box, no strategy. Do you see more of a movement towards niching, I mean, really focusing rather than trying to be all things to all people, and not wanting to turn away any revenue, but really just barreling in and just focusing on one particular industry or demographic or whatever?

• You know, I've been using Peter Drucker's famous question about his idea of systematic abandonment. And the question is, “If you weren't in this line of business today, would you enter it? And if not, what are you going to do about it? And that's a really powerful question.

• Mark, I have to ask you, and this relies more on your experience with the AICPA, but the Big Four in the UK is facing a split up, a spin-off of their audit and their consulting. The Financial Reporting Council, and the firms, are supposed to issue some reports today on how to do that. How do you see that playing out? And will that come to the USA?

• So Mark, we've only got about a minute, or a little over. What advice would you give to a young aspiring CPA?

• Excellent. Yeah, I used to joke that who would you notice first, garbageman going on strike or CPAs? And I have to say CPAs would probably be the right answer this year. So Well, Mark, thank you so much. This has been wonderful. We can't wait to have you back and keep doing the great work at Allinial Global.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #313: Interview with Professor Gary Hamel on His Book Humanocracy

GARY HAMEL is visiting professor of strategy and entrepreneurship at the London Business School. He has authored twenty articles for the Harvard Business Review and published five books with Harvard Business Review Press, including The Future of Management (2007). The Wall Street Journal ranked Hamel as the world’s most influential business thinker, while the Financial Times labeled him a “management innovator without peer.” He lives in Northern California.

Ron’s Questions: Segment One

• Gary, I just finished your book, Humanocracy, shortly after it came out, I got it the day it came out. And I absolutely loved it, as I loved your book, The Future of Management book. So I'm going to ask you the cliche question from a host that makes it sound like he didn't read the book. What is your book about?

• Before we dive in, Gary, I just have to ask you this, too. Is this book a logical extension of The Future of Management? Has your thinking kind of evolved over the years?

• Because one of the things you say is once a company hits a certain threshold in size, that bureaucracy starts growing faster than the organization itself.

• You talk about bureaucracy being a tax on human effort and how we need to get rid of this. And I love that you've quoted the late Carl Deutsch, I think, who observed that “[Power] is the ability to afford not to learn.” And I thought that was great. Are you confident this can be done?

• I love this line, you say “America is a country that was invented by geniuses to be run by idiots. Bureaucracies, by contrast, seem to have been designed by idiots to be run by geniuses.” And I just love that because you're right, creativity is not narrowly distributed. Just look at YouTube, and Wikipedia, and Linux.

• Excellent. Well, Gary, unfortunately, we're up against our break. This is just flying by. But this is great. Thank you so much.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Two

• On The Soul of Enterprise today is Professor Gary Hamel. The book is Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside of Them. And Gary, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about part three of your book, which is the principles over practice. First of all, talk about why it's important that we look at these companies not so much by their unique practices, but by their belief systems instead.

• Ron and I have this saying can you imagine if you ever described your marriage as efficient? How repulsive that would be? I love Ed, he's very efficient. But I want to ask you, there's so many great things in there. But I want to turn your attention to the power of markets and talk a little bit about this, because I think this is quite fascinating. Ron and I, about 10 years ago, came across the notion of the prediction market, and how that could be used inside organizations. And we did a couple of sessions on it. And I’ve got tell you, it fell completely flat. No one knew what the hell we were talking about, like why this would even be a thing. But the experimentation that you've seen, it's starting to work, it's starting to get some uptick, isn't it?

• Yeah, that was a pull quote I had from the book as well, that's a great concept.

Ron’s Questions: Third Segment

• Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Professor Gary Hamel, the author of Humanocracy. And Gary, one objection I can hear and you actually anticipated this in the book. But I can hear somebody saying “How can you have a unity of purpose without unity of command?” What's your response?

• You know, we hear all the time that people hate change, they're fearful of change, they're against change, and you think that's rubbish. You call us change addicts?

• Max Planck made that famous remark about progress happens funeral by funeral. Do you think the old guard, the old current command and control will give up the power and allow this change to happen?

• It reminds me how the two ladies [Jody Thompson and Cali Ressler] who started the Results-only Work Environment (ROWE) at Best Buy. They just went out and did it. They didn't ask for permission. [Listen to our two episodes with Jody Thompson, #24 and #287].

• Al; right, well, like you say, Gary, we created this bureaucracy and we can we can undo it and replace it with something better. Unfortunately, we're up against our next break. Ed is going to take you home during the last segment, Gary, but I just wanted to say thank you. What an honor to be able to chat with you. As a longtime fan, keep up the great work, please. You're needed.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Four

• And, folks, while we are doing our best to try to get to some of the great nuggets in Gary Hamel’s book, Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, we are only scratching the surface. So we really implore you, go buy this book and read it. Don't just buy it, but actually read it, because we think there's some great things that you can do in your organization. I want to turn your attention, Gary, to a subject with regard to the many of the folks who listen to this show. It's more accountants, lawyers, and people in professional services, and even with smaller organizations. What advice do you have for people who are in smaller businesses to avoid some of these traps that the large organizations get ensnared in?

• All right, well, we've got about 90 seconds left or so and I wanted to ask you where can people get your book—obviously at Amazon, all that stuff—but where can they learn more about what you're doing?

A Note From Gary Hamel:

So certainly, please follow me on Twitter @profhamel. You can find me on LinkedIn for sure. Humanocracy.com is where you can learn more about the book. And I hasten to add there's a free course there, about four and a half hours. And if there's something you want to ask me, I'm Gary@Garyhamel.com, it is as simple as that.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 313 - California Crazy is a special kind of crazy. Here are a few links we discussed:

• Before Reopening, California Counties Must Meet “Equity” Standard 

• WHO Reverses Course, Now Advises Against Use of 'Punishing' Lockdowns 

• San Francisco Will Pay Artists $1,000 a Month in Universal Basic Income 

• S.F. might change 44 school names, renouncing Washington, Lincoln, and even Dianne Feinstein 

• Great Barrington Declaration Is Wrong About Herd Immunity 

Episode #312: Third (and a half) interview with Rabbi Daniel Lapin

Rabbi Daniel Lapin, known world-wide as America's Rabbi, is a noted rabbinic scholar, best-selling author and host of the Rabbi Daniel Lapin podcast. He reveals how the world REALLY works and reminds us that the more things change, the more we need to depend upon those things that never change. Everyone needs a Rabbi and he is ours.

A bit more about Rabbi Lapin:
Rabbi Daniel Lapin, known worldwide as Americas Rabbi, is a noted rabbinic scholar, bestselling author and host of the Rabbi Daniel Lapin Show on The Blaze Radio Network. He is one of Americas most eloquent speakers and his ability to extract life principles from the Bible and transmit them in an entertaining manner has brought countless numbers of Jews and Christians closer to their respective faiths. In 2007 Newsweek magazine included him in its list of Americas fifty most influential rabbis. Before immigrating to the United States in 1973, Rabbi Daniel Lapin studied Torah, physics, economics and mathematics in Johannesburg, London and Jerusalem. Rabbi Lapin was the founding rabbi of Pacific Jewish Center, a legendary Orthodox synagogue in Venice, CA. Rabbi Lapin is a noted writer, published in the Wall Street Journal, National Review, Commentary, and The Jewish Press. His books are Americas Real War, Buried Treasure, Thou Shall Prosper, and Business Secrets from the Bible.

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

• Well, we do have Father Sirico lined up for a couple of weeks from now but you beat him back. You're ahead of him now, technically. Well, just a quick bio for Rabbi Daniel Lapin, known worldwide as America's Rabbi. He’s a noted rabbinical scholar, a best-selling author and host of The Rabbi Daniel Lapin podcast, he reveals how the world really works and reminds us that the more things change, the more we need to depend upon those things that never change. So welcome back to The Soul of Enterprise. First question, how are you and your family riding out with the COVID situation?

• Fair enough. Well, I'm glad you're well, that's the most important thing. A late report here. I'm in Texas. And you know it's got to be somewhat serious because the high school football team cancelled its game tonight because two of the kids got COVID. So we shall see. Anyway, under this notion of change and relying on ancient wisdom, back when we first interviewed you, we talked about your ten commandments of wealth creation, and number seven is learn to foretell the future. And in your book, you mentioned that the best known Jewish aphorism is “Whatever has been there will be and whatever is done will be done, there is nothing new under the sun.” So, you’ve studied economics, what's not new under the sun with this COVID-19? Because boy, it feels sure feels new to us.

• As you were talking, I was thinking about a couple of reports that I've read this week about as challenging as it has been for us at least we do have Amazon. I think about some countries in Sub- Saharan Africa and other places that do have despots who are in charge, who are really using this as a way to put a lot of people down.

• To that end, as someone who has studied economics, even if we snapped our fingers and everything went back to what it was before “The Great Suppression,” as Gene Epstein calls it, I think has really caused damage that is going to be with us for a number of years down the line. That’s one of my fears, that we're only beginning to see the ramifications of this long term. And that's even if everything got better almost immediately.

• Well, I hope that happens. And as the saying goes, from your mouth to God's ears. Let's hope that that's the case.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

• I listen to you religiously every week, your show is great, and we'll definitely link to it in the show notes. I couldn't go a week without it. As you know, Rabbi, this program we called The Soul of Enterprise because we wanted to talk about more than just the material aspects of business. Because as you taught me, as father Sirico taught me, George Gilder taught me, you guys talk about the spiritual side, and you have lots of fantastic explanations of the difference between physical and spiritual. I love and use your violin example all the time. But I love, maybe even more, because of the visual picture it paints, your pet chimpanzee. Can you explain that?

• I think that's such a great distinction.

• I love it. Rabbi, this is totally unfair. We've only got about a minute-and-a-half. But you always say the advice that you get from every commencement speech, “Do what you love,” is bad advice. Why do you say that?

• Right, serve others and then you'll learn to love it. I love that advice. Unfortunately, we're up against the next break.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

• And we are back with our Rabbi, Rabbi Daniel Lapin here on The Soul of Enterprise. And, Rabbi, I wanted to ask you, one of the things I've heard you say over and over again is that if there's not a Hebrew word for it, there's no reason for it. However, my guess is there's not a Hebrew word for innovation. But that doesn't mean that the Bible can't tell us an awful lot about innovation. So what does the Hebrew Bible have to say about innovation?

• Yes, really neat stuff. The other thing I wanted to quickly ask you about, we've got about four minutes left. The renewal of the cities as you see them. One of the things that we've heard recently is that New York is going to die. It's all going to happen. But you have, I thought, a very interesting blog post where you say, Yes, all cities do have a tendency to go through a trauma, a time of trial, but oftentimes they rebound, and they often outlast even governments themselves?

• Yeah, and I like the tie into the innovation piece, too. It's just great. Well, we're against our last break.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• Welcome back everybody. We're here with my rabbi, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, and Rabbi you say in [your book] Business Secrets from the Bible—which is a fantastic book and we will post all of your books on our show notes—that ancient Israel prohibited the king from counting the people because it implies that all people are identical. So I have two questions. Do you oppose the census? And, what is the threat from government counting?

• Right? Kind of like you always say bricks, and [stones].

• Great. You know, you also say another thing in Business Secrets from the Bible, that Jewish people understood specialization for millennia before Adam Smith? Can you give me an example?

• Sure. Well, Rabbi, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for coming back on for the fourth time. We've got to have you back a lot sooner than every couple years or so. Ed’s what's on store for next week?

Next week, we have Gary Hamel, the author of Humanocracy.

But first! A few extra resources for you…

• Rabbi Daniel Lapin’s Website: www.rabbidaniellapin.com and www.youneedarabbi.com.

• The Rabbi Daniel Lapin Podcast

• Rabbi Lapin’s Books:

  • America’s Real War: An Orthodox Rabbi Insists that Judeo-Christian Values are Vital for Our Nation’s Survival (1999)

  • Buried Treasure: Secrets for Living from the Lord’s Language (2001)

  • Thou Shall Prosper: Ten Commandments for Making Money (2002)

  • Business Secrets from the Bible: Spiritual Success Strategies for Financial Abundance (2014)

• Listen to Rabbi Lapin’s prior appearances on The Soul of Enterprise:

  • Episode #20

  • Episode #86

  • Episode #226 (with Father Robert Sirico)

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 312 - Southwest and Pricing during C-19. Here are a few links we discussed:

• Sex Pistols singer John Lydon: 'Of course I'm voting for Trump' 

• Southwest Airlines Just Made a Bold Move That's Very Different From What Its Competitors Are Doing. Is It Risky or Smart? 

• Pricing in a pandemic: Navigating the COVID-19 crisis 

• The unionization attempt at No Evil Foods holds lessons for workers across the country 

Episode #311: Second interview with Michael Munger

Michael Munger was an absolute hoot! If Ron had him as a professor in college he might have become an economist!

Before we get to the show notes, a bit more about Michael:
Professor Michael Munger received his Ph.D. in Economics at Washington University in St. Louis in 1984. Following his graduate training, he worked as a staff economist at the Federal Trade Commission. His first teaching job was in the Economics Department at Dartmouth College, followed by appointments in the Political Science Department at the University of Texas at Austin 19861990 and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 19901997. At UNC he directed the MPA Program, which trains public service professionals, especially city and county management. He moved to Duke in 1997, and was Chair of the Political Science Department from 2000 through 2010. He has won three University-wide teaching awards the Howard Johnson Award, an NAACP Image Award for teaching about race, and admission to the Bass Society of Teaching Fellows. He is currently director of the interdisciplinary PPE Program at Duke University.

Ron’s Questions: First Segment

• Well, Mike, we had you on the last time in May of 2018 (May 2018, Episode #190). So just real quick, how have you been holding up with COVID? How's it affected your work at Duke? 

• That's great. Well, you know, last time we had you on we talked about your book to Tomorrow 3.0, which had just come out that year in 2018. This time, I'm dying to talk to you about your 2019 book, Is Capitalism Sustainable? Is it true, that’s a collection of different essays you wrote between 2005 and 2019?

• So before we give the spoiler alert, and you give the answer to the question—is capitalism sustainable?—why did you feel the need to put that book together last year?

• Right. No, you talk a lot about that. And I want to get there with you. You also gave the definition of sustainability, I think, from the Environmental Protection Agency's website: “the meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.” Using that definition, Mike, is capitalism sustainable?

• You call it the road to cronyism. And do you see any path off that road if we stick with democracy?

• No, that was brilliant. You anticipated my next question, because you said the most important concept in political economy is permissionless innovation. I thought that was a pretty profound statement because we've had Adam Thierer on (Episode #294, June 2020) and he wrote that book, Permissionless Innovation, and he also wrote another one called Evasive Entrepreneurs, how the Ubers of the world go around the regulation. So you're somewhat optimistic as long as we have that constant dynamism, that constant creative destruction, and entrepreneurs, that we can overcome the road to cronyism?

Ed’s Questions: Segment Two

• We're talking with Duke University's Professor Michael Munger about his book Is Capitalism Sustainable? and other topics. I thought I would be remiss Michael if I didn't ask you about something that has come up in the news lately. I think September 13th was the 50th anniversary of what's known as the Friedman Doctrine and his article The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits. And the New York Times had a huge symposium about it. But I wanted to get your thoughts on this, because this is something that 50 years on, we're still talking a lot about. The fact that corporations need to do more than just produce profits, they need to sustain something else, they need to create value for society some other place. What are your thoughts on the Friedman Doctrine?

• I'm glad I got you riled up on a Friday. Well, if that gets you going, you're going to love my next question, which was an article that came across my desk from, of all places, Teen Vogue, which is now banned in my house by the way. So here's the quote, ready? “Capitalism is defined as the economic system in which a country's trade and industry and profits are controlled by private companies”… Here's the kicker…“instead of by the people whose time and labor powers those companies.”

• Yeah. And one more we got about two minutes before the end of this segment, but this is one that I came across from an article in a Canadian magazine called Canadian Dimension. The author is Richard Wolff. And he says in “COVID-19 and the failures of Capital”: The result is that neither private capitalism nor the US government performed its basic duty of an economic system, to protect and maintain public health and safety. US capitalism response to the coronavirus pandemic continues to be what it has been since December of 2019, too little too late. It failed. It is the problem. And I look at the world, because you kept Kiwi fruits in all of the stores throughout the entire pandemic, and you but you couldn't buy napkins or toilet paper and you were upset that it's a failure of capitalism. This is absurd.

• Yes.. And we've been referring to it, I think this was Bob Murphy who referred to it as “The Great Suppression” [it was Gene Epstein who first said that, not Bob Murphy]. I love that.

Ron’s Questions: Third Segment

• Well welcome back, everybody. We're here with Duke University Professor Michael Munger. And Mike, in your book, you talk about Dan Ariely the author of Predictably Irrational, we've also had him on (Episode #43). But you make a really good point about the behavioral economists in general, that they take a large number of dim bulbs, and they say but once they get together in a mob they can suddenly solve all these problems, and you're talking about by voting. And then they stop there, and they talk about the weaknesses of the market and people's irrationality, but they never apply it to government.

• That brings to mind the [William F.] Buckley quote, “I’d rather be governed by the first 500 names in the Boston phone book rather than the faculty at Harvard.

• That's true. You know, another thing you do really well in the book are your chapters on price gouging, and anti-price gouging laws, they’re just brilliant. You lay out the three problems. But give me the best case you can for why these laws are so irrational?

• Then you make another point that I think is really profound is the guy that comes off of his couch watching the football game in Ohio and brings generators and needed supplies to a disaster area, he gets arrested versus the guy who does nothing.

• And you also compare it to laying siege to a city. Yeah, that would be an act of war if an army did it. But we call it public policy

• It’s amazing. You know, Mike, I'm out here in California where we're being just inundated with wildfires. And, of course, it's all blamed on climate change. But the whole carbon emissions “market failure,” we need a carbon tax. I'm sure you've heard this. But you've taught me, and other economists have taught me that prices are not an input to the process, the result of a discovery process. How confident are you that government knows what the right price is to put on the carbon tax?

• Great, great point. The other part of your book that I really enjoyed was you take on recycling pretty strongly, and you have this acid test for determining whether something is a resource, or garbage. Can you explain that?

• And as you point out, whether the government separates our trash or we do it, it's a waste of labor.

• This has been great. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you so much Mike for coming back on. Ed's going to take you home in the last segment. But thank you so much. It's always a great pleasure.

Ed’s Questions: Fourth Segment

• We're back with Professor Michael Munger of Duke University. During the break, folks, Michael and I found out that we're both running for our respective Texas and North Carolina House. So let's talk a little bit of politics. We talk a lot about business and government but what about this thing called the duopoly? This thing led by that Commission on Presidential Debates, which sounds so official, that is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democratic and Republican Party. How do we take down the duopoly?

• And one of the things I want to ask you about. There's a fairly controversial issue in the Libertarian Party. What do you think about going to rank choice voting is a potential workaround around that first past the post and would encourage more parties; like what they're doing in California, which is the open primary system, and you just have the top two, which of those in your mind the better of the two?

• Yeah, my favorite this week has been all the people I've had to educate on “A vote for Jo Jorgensen is a vote for”…and fill in the candidate they oppose. By what logic do you get there at all? It really burns me, it is just so condescending to say that my vote on principle is really a vote for something that I detest.

• Or if you really thought that your vote needed to mean something you would move to Wisconsin, because where you live in California or New York is not going to matter. Well, before we started, I made this joke about the Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg dying two weeks ago when it seems like it was 10 years with this new cycle. And I know that something that Russ Roberts has talked a lot about is this political discourse is just getting more and more sour and the tribalism. How do you see us emerging out of this at some point, or is this may be going to get worse? Have we reached the bottom of the barrel in your view?

• All right, well, you got a lot in there. Michael, thank you so much for joining us on The Soul of Enterprise. This has absolutely been a blast. And hopefully we will, one day when all of this starts to lift, my brother as I mentioned to you last time also works at Duke. So I would love to come out and have a beer. Maybe I can sit in between you and Dan Ariely, that would be great. Thanks for being on The Soul of Enterprise.

A Few Extra Links For You…

We had such a wide ranging conversation with Micahel Munger and we didn’t want you to miss these links. They are not endorsements (as you will see from the Teen Vogue link) but they were points of discussion during the show.

• A Friedman doctrine‐- The Social Responsibility Of Business Is to Increase Its Profits

  “There is one and only one social responsibility of business—to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits so long as it stays within the rules of the game, which is to say, engages in open and free competition without deception fraud."

• What 'Capitalism' Is and How It Affects People

  Capitalism is defined as an economic system in which a country’s trade, industry, and profits are controlled by private companies, instead of by the people whose time and labor powers those companies. 

• COVID-19 and the failures of capitalism

  The result is that neither private capitalism nor the US government performed the most basic duty of any economic system: to protect and maintain public health and safety. US capitalism’s response to the coronavirus pandemic continues to be what it has been since December 2019: too little, too late. It failed. It is the problem.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

New this week!

Bonus episode 311 - DJT C-19 and more. Here are a few links we discussed:

• Sam's Club offers doctor visits with new telehealth subscription while Walmart pilots COVID-19 test drone delivery

• Ex-Google Engineer Levandowski’s Jump to Uber Ends in Prison 

Episode #310: Live! Well, sorta, from Ignite by CPB Canada

We couldn’t be happier with the questions that came in from attendees of Ignite 2020 by CPB Canada. It was all about the subscription business model!

About CPB Canada:
Certified Professional Bookkeepers of Canada is a member-based association, a national certifying body and the leading professional and career development organization for bookkeepers in Canada.

So where are the show notes?
For this week’s show, we would like to extend a gracious thank you to CPB Canada for hosting Ron and Ed during their virtual event. We primarily took questions from the audience and, as you would guess, they were mostly about the subscription business model. Show notes could not do these questions justice so you can listen to the episode for the good stuff!

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

New this week!

Bonus episode 309.2 - Subscription Update - Apple Microsoft and More. After Tuesday's Wonkfest, we needed to take a break from politics and talk subscription.

Bonus episode 310 - Some free riding including words about words. Featuring discussion about these articles:

• The Disappointing Ban Of WeChat Calls For American Conservatives To Look Inward 

• 10 Great Words That Describe Other Words 

• New on Bitcoin’s Lightning Network: LND Adds Accounting Feature, c-lightning Gets an Upgrade 

• How bitcoin met the real world in Africa 

• What “Capitalism” Is and How It Affects People 

• Subscription services boom in lockdown with spending up 40 per cent 

Episode #309 - Interview with John Garrett

Ron and Ed welcome professional comedian and CPA, John Garrett to the show to talk about John's new book based on his podcast of the same name - What's Your And? We were also joined by college football legend, Lou Holtz. At least, that’s what the caller told us in segment three. You really should listen for the details.

Before the show notes, a bit more about John:
John Garrett is a catalyst for corporate culture change. He’s on a mission to help teams break down barriers, foster unity and strengthen bonds. No matter where you are in your career, it’s important to differentiate yourself to achieve your goals. The future professional doesn’t define expertise simply in college degrees and certifications. They have passions outside of work that enhance their ability to develop stronger levels of trust with colleagues and clients. Through hilarious stories and extensive research, John encourages everyone to share their passions because they are the very heart of your organization’s culture.

Ron’s Questions: Segment One

• I'm really excited to bring in John Garrett. He's a two time Emmy nominee, and is a catalyst for corporate culture change. He's on a mission to help teams break down barriers foster unity and strengthen bonds. The future professional doesn't define expertise simply in college degrees and certifications. They have passions outside of work that enhance their ability to develop stronger levels of trust with their colleagues and clients. John encourages everyone to share their passions because they are at the very heart of your organization's culture. John Garrett, welcome to The Soul of Enterprise.

• I first heard you on a Sirius [comedy channel], didn't know who you were, but when they introduced you as a CPA, Notre Dame grad, it got my attention. You did this whole riff, I think it was on Willie Nelson. How he was complaining about the war or defense spending. And you said, well, what's the point? You don't even pay taxes anyway.

• I just remember thinking, wow, this is crazy. You know, a CPA, former PwC. So tell us the john Garrett life story.

• That's awesome. What I have to ask you, because I think you asked me this when I was on your show, when did you know you wanted to be a CPA? When did that happen for you?

• Well, this book [What’s Your And?: Unlock the Person Within the Professional] has been a while in coming. We spoke about it a while ago. I remember you were said you were working on it and I said, Oh, I can't wait, when you get it done, we'll have you on the show. But why did you write it and why now? Why is this message so critical now?

• It is a great message. And before we get into that, how did you get Lou Holtz to write your Foreword?

• Wow, that's awesome. When I saw that, that gets your attention.

• Well we've only got a couple minutes John, maybe less, but just real fast—and I'm sure Ed will pick up on this—but you say ignoring your And makes you less successful and less professional and makes your firm less successful. What do you mean by that?

• You know, that is a profound idea, and I love the way you expanded on it in your book. So I'm sure we'll talk more about that.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Two

• Folks, the book is What's Your And?, the author is John Garrett and he is here on The Soul of Enterprise this week. And John, before we dive into the meat of the book, I wanted to ask you, what was the process for you of writing? How did you go about writing this book?

• You know, you incorporate other people's stories and the way I took it is it wasn't necessarily verbatim transcripts of your podcast interviews with them, but certainly those stories were then incorporated and scattered throughout the book. Is that correct?

• Yeah, and it is really interesting the way the stories bounce back between your voice and then to the person that you're talking about, and you're giving great examples of what you just cited. One of the parts that really spoke to me was this, as you write, “Many professionals feel that keeping their passions to themselves is the safest move and the best as far as their career development. They feel that talking about them will make them vulnerable, and others will perceive them as not being very good at their job. These professionals are wrong, dead wrong. If you want to be staffed on a cool project the manager needs to know who you are. Expound on that a little bit. That really spoke to me.

• Do you think this, at least where I am at Sage, that this is open and encouraged. But are you still finding that a lot of organizations do not encourage people to talk about their And?

• They want to hear it and I think that's a good point. And you do make that at another point in the book.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Three

• Welcome back everybody. We're here with John Garrett, the author of the newly released What's Your And? John, one of the points you make that I just thought was phenomenal was that you say employers look for extracurricular activities, but then they don't give the people they hire the time to continue with those. And then you pointed out that resume writers and coaches and people on LinkedIn are really suggesting you remove these extracurricular activities. Really? That does seem incandescently stupid.

• As you know, at least in the CPA profession and other professions as well, we have this graying, that a lot of people are retiring. Something like two-thirds of the AICPA membership is eligible for retirement in the next seven or ten years. It's an astonishing number. And you actually blame no activities outside of work for the lack of succession planning in firms. And I thought that was a really interesting link.

 Ed Kless Interrupting… “Hey listen we have got Lou Holtz on the line.”

Greg Kyte… “Hey of course this isn't Lou Holtz. This is Greg Kyte from Utah. Long time caller, first time listener.”

Ron Baker… “Good comedians don't grow on trees. They swing from them.”

[The remaining portion of this segment has been edited out of the show notes. It was hilarious and you really should listen.]

•  John, this is another thing that I really enjoyed about the book. You give many different ways for firms to disseminate their people's Ands. Toastmaster lunches. You've got your marketing ideas, newsletters. But explain the bucket list idea.

• No, that was a phenomenal idea. It's kind of like you also talked about newsletters, and I know some firms have put movie reviews into their newsletters or recipes. And that's what gets read not the technical crap.

• Well, John, this is great. Unfortunately, we're out of time because of Greg.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Four

• John Garrett is our special guest today on The Soul of Enterprise. His book is What's Your and both Ron and I have had the privilege of being on that podcast. So we will post up notes where you can go listen to the episodes where we were on. I'm a recidivist there, I was on twice, I get to one-up Ron on that one.

• I wanted to ask you one of the things that you point out, and this is in your section about being not afraid—don’t be afraid to be an original. And you say, “The world is starving for authenticity and uniqueness.” And authenticity is a word that really resonates with me. In fact, it's a word that I've talked a lot about in my professional career. I have a whole section in my consulting course on the notion of authenticity. And I just wanted to hear what your thoughts are on authenticity. When I hear it, what it means to me is not being afraid to say what you see and say what you feel, even more importantly. You can phrase it as “I think” rather than “I feel” because I think that's a better phrase, but we can't be afraid not to, and I have found that authenticity is actually, in my opinion, the most important thing that anyone in a consulting role can be.

• Yeah, I think that was a super insight. The notion of it's easier to define what is unprofessional, and we can take anything is professional up to the point of well, no, that's gone beyond the pale right. Because David Maister in his books long ago, 30 plus years ago, talks about that's the worst thing that you can say to a professional, is that they're behaving unprofessionally. That really sticks in their craw.

• But you do admit throughout the book that that line has changed over time. And we're constantly experimenting with it and playing with it. So talk a little bit about that.

• So talk a little bit about that. Any impact that you've seen on the concept that you put forward in the book because of COVID. Have you seen any impact with regard to that?

• Our North American Managing Director, Nancy Harris, who I know you know, because you met with her when we were doing the Sage sessions. Whenever we have a meeting now—and this just happened yesterday—it’s almost a riot if she does not bring her dog, Harley, onto the broadcast.

• So we've only got about a minute or two left John. What's next for you? Is there another book on the horizon?

• I'll give you a piece of unsolicited advice, and I think Ron will back me up on this. Resist the temptation to provide a checklist.

• Outstanding. Well, john, thanks so much for being a guest on the show today. Really appreciate it.

[EDITOR’S NOTE: Both Ron and Ed have been a guest on John Garrett’s podcast. Here is a link to Ron’s appearance. Here is a link to the first and second appearances for Ed.]

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 109 - More with John Garrett. We were really fortunate to have John Garrett stick around for the bonus episode so we have another hour with him just for our Patreon members!

Episode #308: Interview with Margaret Wheatley

Ron and Ed were honored to interview Margaret Wheatley

A Bit More About Margaret:
Margaret Wheatley has worked globally with many different roles a speaker, teacher, community worker, consultant, advisor, and formal leader. From these deep and varied experiences, she has developed the unshakable conviction that leaders must learn how to evoke people's inherent generosity, creativity and need for community. As the world tears us apart, sane leadership, on behalf of the human spirit is the only way forward. She's the author of nine books, including the classic Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World, Third Edition (2006). Her newest book, in 2017, is Who Do We Choose To Be?: Facing Reality, Claiming Leadership, Restoring Sanity?

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

• First question to you Margaret, how are you holding up personally with regard to the whole COVID situation that we're going through.

• Yes, just this morning I was talking with my mentor, Howard Hanson. And he told me a story about his mother-in-law who is turning 100 next week. And what a great story and I wished him well, and her husband had passed 25 years ago, and he was saying that she could have gone down the path of being depressed about it. Instead, she embraced her new community. She became active in her bridge club and the place where she lived, and I was thinking, I wonder what someone going through that same situation today as his mother-in-law did, would she be able to do that with everything that's happened to us regarding COVID? So what's been your thinking about the impact of COVID, from an ability to build a strong community standpoint?

• So it is the people stepping up at this time willing to put themselves on the line with regard to being willing to get on Skype calls or Zoom calls as opposed to resisting that technology?

• One quote I heard was, what are we going to do when we go back to live meetings and can't mute all?

• Which leads me into the next question that I wanted to ask you. And I mentioned before we started recording that I've been a reader of your books for a couple of decades now. I have physical copies of some of your books as opposed to just Kindle versions. And it was a great treat to go back and re-read some of the works that I had encountered a dozen years ago or more. And one of them was your book A Simpler Way. And the opening in that book reminded me a little bit of Yuval Levin’s new book, which is called A Time to Build, where he's talking about the need to refirm up our institutions, but in a more positive way, because he says they've gone from being formative of the people in them to just being platforms that other people use, and it even allows others who cracked the code to come in. And when you think about what's happened with our political parties, you know, both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders to a certain extent were outside of the institutions that they rose up in because they just use them as platforms, rather than being shaped by them, or helping to shape them. Thoughts on that?

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

• Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Margaret Wheatley, the author of, among other books, Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World. It's out in its third edition as of 2006. Meg that was the first book of yours I read in 1996 or 1997. Because I was introduced to it in an article from an author who I really admired, he was writing about change. And he quoted you and I thought what he quoted was deeply profound. So I ran out and got your book, and it is profound. And I can imagine because you had a business audience somewhat in mind, I can just imagine some people going, “Well, what am I supposed to do Monday morning?” We're so used to checklists and just led by the nose. Did you ever get that type of feedback?

• I love how you weave in that there's three different areas of science that you are intrigued by: quantum physics, self-organizing systems, and chaos theory. You do such a great job of explaining those, especially to a layman like me. And every one of those that you discuss is profound. But you quote, when it comes to systems thinking, the ancient Sufi teaching that captures the shift and focus of this idea that “you think because you understand one, you must understand two, because one and one makes two, but you must also understand ‘and.’”

• Do you think this COVID crisis is—and this you explained really well from chaos theory—that you have to go through a period of chaos to emerge in a new way. Do you think this crisis could be that point of chaos?

• Now, in the book you talked about what biology has taught you, and it taught you that you can have faith in the system. If a system is suffering, this indicates that lacks sufficient access to itself. It could be lacking information or it might have lost clarity about who it is, trouble with relationships. Can you explain that? Because I just think that is so profound, it lacks sufficient access to itself?

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

• Back with Margaret Wheatley on The Soul of Enterprise and Margaret during our break one of the things that you mentioned to us is that you really wanted to get an opportunity to address our audience and be present to give them a talk about being leaders as leaders, and I thought that was a really interesting turn of phrase. What do you mean by that, enlighten us?

• Riffing off of Milton Friedman, he said something in an economic context but when you were talking it reminded me of this quote, he said, “Our job is to keep these ideas around, so that when the impossible becomes the inevitable, the ideas are still around.”

• So, it's funny, even before we started recording today, we were talking about your books and I said I had them and they were always beautifully done with photo essays, and poetry. Talk a little bit, we have a few minutes before our break, and now I see why you haven't released a new book but instead have posted online Warriors for the Human Spirit, a song line, a guided journey by voice and sound. So talk a little bit about that offering that you've made with Jerry Granelli, is that correct?

• The last thing I wanted to talk with you a little bit about before Ron takes us home to the top of the hour is, and I've signed up for this next week, you're starting a thing called leadership for a changing world, a program that's being offered. Tell us a little about what you're going to be talking about.

• Margaret, I am going to say goodbye to you now because Ron is going take you the last 15 minutes. But I want to thank you so much for being a guest. This has been a real thrill to meet one of my heroes from a business author standpoint. So thanks so much for being on the show.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Margaret Wheatley, author of Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World. Meg I have to tell you; you had a section in the book, I forget the chapter, but you talked about Frederick Taylor and Frank Gilbreth. And you said, “I still find this early literature frightening to read.” You'll be happy to know that our very first show on this program was bashing Frederick Taylor (Episode #1). [Meg: Yeah, but he's alive and well]. He is. And that was my question, we call it the cult of efficiency but why? Why is his allure so powerful

• We've created organizations that are less creative and adaptable then the people inside of them. Gary Hamel, his new book, Humanocracy is just a screed against bureaucracy, and how we need to kill it. And he gives lots of examples of companies that have. Do you see us overcoming bureaucracy?

• We've done a few shows on organizational change management and you quote in your book studies that show 75% of these initiatives fail, or at least don't live up to the people's expectations.

• You wrote, and I just thought this was lovely. You said, “I was well trained to create things, plans, events, measures, programs. I invested more than half my life and trying to make the world conform to what I thought was best for it. It's not easy to give up the role of master creator and move into the dance of life.”

• Margaret, it has been an honor to chat with you. I just I love the book. Highly recommend that everybody read Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World, and make sure you get the third edition. It's absolutely profound. You'll think your way through this book. It'll give you new words to use, new models to think about, and new ways to see the world. It's had a profound impact on me, Meg, thank you so much for being on The Soul of Enterprise.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 109 - COVID Update, Mulan, and Subscrptions. Here are a few stories we discussed during this episode:

• Jimmy Lai: Hong Kong tycoon found not guilty in intimidation trial 

• IFTTT Pro set you own price 

• A clinic that doesn't accept insurance opening in Idaho Falls 

• United Airlines is getting rid of most US change fees -- forever - CNN

Episode #307: Interview with Ronald Bailey

Ron and Ed are fired up to welcome Reason Magazine science editor, Ronald Bailey to the show.

A Bit More About Ronald:
Ronald Bailey is the science correspondent for Reason, where he writes a weekly science and technology column. From 1987 to 1990, Bailey was a staff writer for Forbes magazine, covering economic, scientific and business topics. His articles and reviews have appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Commentary, The Public Interest, Smithsonian, TechCentralStation, National Review, Reader’s Digest and many other publications. In 1993, he was the Warren T. Brookes Fellow in Environmental Journalism at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. In 2006, Bailey was shortlisted by the editors of Nature Biotechnology as one of the personalities who have made the “most significant contributions” to biotechnology in the last 10 years. Prior to joining Reason in 1997, Bailey produced several weekly national public television series including Think Tank and TechnoPolitics, as well as several documentaries for PBS television and ABC News. He’s author, along with Marian Tupy [See Episode #304 for our interview with Marian], of the newly released book: Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting.

Ron’s Questions: Segment One

• Ron, welcome to The Soul of Enterprise. I've been reading you for a long time. I first read one of your first books in 1993, Eco-Scam: The False Prophets of Ecological Apocalypse. You have a very impressive career, and have changed your mind, and evolved your thinking, so we'll talk about that for sure. But I have to ask you, did you know Warren Brookes? [Author of The Economy in Mind].

• Brookes had a powerful impact on me with his book The Economy in Mind. One of the reasons we use the Reagan quote, which is the Moscow speech he delivered written by Joshua Gilder, George Gilder’s nephew, is that he quotes in there the economy in mind. When I saw that you were the Warren Brookes fellow so I had to ask you. Ron, how have you been holding up, personally, with all this COVID and all this other craziness going on, we're in the middle of an election?

• And I want to ask you about that. But first, how would you grade the government's response to this pandemic, both at the state and federal levels

• Was that just the FDA, just bumbling the whole thing, or just trying to keep control?

• I am going to make a confession to you Ron. I haven’t received the book yet. As a result, I am going to stick with COVID and climate change with you. I've been reading a lot of your posts and articles and you wrote one a few days ago about a vaccine, and how Americans are worried that the approval process is being driven more by politics than science. And that's on a bipartisan basis, both sides, but yet 62% said they would they would take the vaccine prior to the election. [Source: “Poll: Americans Worry COVID-19 Vaccine Approval Is Politicized,” Reason, September 1, 2020]. Would you take the vaccine?

• Your co-author, Marian Tupy, we had him on and he made that point about how we're just accelerating vaccines, which is fantastic. And you actually anticipated my next question. I was going to ask you about all these regulations that have been removed or relaxed during this crisis. Do you think it'll stay that way? Or will those come back?

• I hope you're right on that. And you know, I re-listened to a broadcast you did with Jonah Goldberg, because we love The Remnant podcast. And you were on May 7, and you guys were talking about the lock downs. Do you think the cost of the lock downs exceeded the benefits from an economic perspective?

Ed’s Questions: Segment Two

• And the book is Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting, by Ronald Bailey and Marian Tupy. Marian was a guest of ours about a month ago. First, I want to congratulate you on the book Ronald but also to say it's beautiful. It's just a beautiful book.

• Well, I'm thinking honestly several copies of for people at Christmas, because it's something that needs to be distributed among my family members. And not because they're anti this, but because I think they are often misinformed. Let's open with a question that you asked in the Introduction to the book: Why do so many smart people wrongly believe that, all things considered, the world is getting worse?

• I haven't read every word of it. I perused through the whole thing, and I'm about halfway through the full book. But one thing I wanted to know, thousands of years from now people are going to dig up our stuff and wonder why many of them have an apple, half bitten apple on them, right? They'll be able to figure it out from our records, not just that. So let's talk about the Ten Trends. The first trend is the Great Enrichment, and we've had Deirdre McCloskey on [twice, Episode #6 and Episode #293] Trend Two is the end of poverty.

• I want you to take it even a step further. Because you do mention this, at the very end of the section, you say the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, expects the economy will grow by $600 trillion by 2100. What will that mean for our children and our grandchildren and even the grandchildren of those in Sub-Saharan Africa?

• I've said there are people worried about future shock. I have future glee. And I want to be around for some of this stuff. All right, well, trend number three asks a question. So I'll just ask it: Are we running out of resources? 

• And then I hear this, “but what about the rare earths that are all in China? What about the rare earths?”

• So Trend Four is a peak population. Shorter answer is we haven't reached it, but we're getting close. But my question to you is what happens when the population starts to decline since we've not experienced that, except for tragedy. This would be a situation where it's not tragic?

• Well, let's try to get another: Trend Five in here before our break, and that is the end of famine, which is just amazing. But the question that I hear after I mentioned this to people that famines have gone away is, “Oh, but what about GMOs?” But that is what has prevented famine.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

• Ed Kless here again with my friend Ron Baker, and we have today the author of the newly released book Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting and I love that subtitle, too. Unfortunately, we're probably not going to get to the many others that you'll find interesting today but let's talk a little bit more about Trend number Six. You alluded to this in the last segment toward the end, which was the end of famine, and Trend Six is more land for nature.

• Trend Seven is planet city. We all remember the planet city in Star Wars fame. I think this is an interesting trend. One thing I did want to ask you about this, though, is do you still feel the same in light of COVID-1—that we are going see this trend continue towards cities?

• Outstanding. Trend number Eight is democracy on the march. The chart really shows the incredible increase in democracy across the world not since like the 1940s when you would think it is, but actually since the 70s is really when the switch began to occur. And yet again, there's still fear, just today I had a friend post on Facebook if you vote for x you are voting for the end of America as we know it.

• Trend number Nine is the long peace. I felt very personally connected to this one, because both my grandfather and father—I can remember conversations with them—who said, “You know, Ed, it’s likely that you or your brother will end up going to war at some point.” I grew up in the 70s and early 80s. And it was still the belief among that generation that this would happen. But this trend shows the number of wars and interstate wars have just been trending down and that's been a wonderful thing. So talk about the long peace.

• Let me just give you an opportunity on both democracy on the march, and the long peace, something that's been in in the news lately. China, and maybe specifically comment on Hong Kong, is there a concern there?

• Just quickly as follow up, are you concerned about that at the government level or more at the private sector level with say, Facebook, Twitter, that kind of thing? It's convoluted.

• Yeah because the private sector is like the government could take that over. Well, the last Trend in the top 10, as I said, I think there are 78 total trends in the book, and maybe we'll get to one or two of the others. But number 10 is a safer world. And by that you mean the significant reduction in deaths from natural disasters from 1900 until the present. Talk a little bit about that.

• Great stuff. Well, that rounds out the top 10. Now, I'm excited to have about three minutes to get to some of the some of the other trends and the one that jumped out at me is Trend number 14, which is global inequality is falling. And then the response is always “But what about local inequality?” And Ron and I like to ask this question, “Is it fair that Jeff Bezos is so rich? And what's my fair share of his money anyway?”

• All right, well, let me see if I can sneak one of the later trends in on you, because this is one I think that most people would not even get close if you asked them what the percentage was that have access to electricity. Trend number 60 reveals that 86% of the world has access to electricity. I don't think there's anybody that I know would get that right at all.

• No, I don't want to camp one night, 100,000 years of human civilization means I sleep inside. Unless you want to great but I don't want to. Well, the book again is Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting by Ronald Bailey and Marian Tupy. We highly recommend it.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Ronald Bailey, the science correspondent for Reason magazine. And Ron, I know that your first article in Reason on global warming was back in 1992. And you thought back then that the threat was overblown. And you even published a book, Eco-Scam, in 1993, I believe, which I read—I think that was the first book of yours that I read—and it really had a big impact on me. But you've changed your mind. And now you think it could well be a significant problem. What changed your mind? [Source: “Climate Change: How Lucky Do You Feel?,” January 2020, Reason].

• No, that's a great point. And I also want to ask you, I just finished reading, about a month ago, Bjorn Lomborg's new book False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet, what's your take on that?

• Like you said, take [econometric and computer models that project one hundred years into the future] with a vat of salt, not a grain of salt. I love that.

• We've only got a couple minutes. But I’ve got to get this question to you too, because you probably know this guy, Patrick Moore. One of original founders of Greenpeace. I also just finished his book Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: The Making of a Sensible Environmentalist. Why the hostility to nuclear power from those most worried about climate change? China Syndrome?

• Yeah, you know, Michael Moore's new movie, Planet of the Humans, apparently blasts solar and wind power as really expensive, but he's reverting back to the population problem. It's too many people. We have too many people.

• Excellent. Well, Ron, thank you so much. It's been such an honor having you on long, we are longtime fans. Keep up the great work. And Ed, what do we have coming up next week? 

Ed: Next week, We're going to welcome Margaret Wheatley to our show, author of Leadership and the New Science, and some other really wonderful books.

Ron: Fantastic. All right, I'll see you in 167 hours.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 107.1 — “Conversation with Robert Wood” AND 107.2 — “DOJ moves against Google” — features our new partnership with 90Minds and an amazing rant from Ron about the DOJ.

Episode #306: Interview with Aaron Harris, Sage CTO

Ron and Ed are pleased to welcome Aaron Harris, Global CTO of Sage. Aaron is responsible for Sage’s technology and product vision. Aaron is hands-on leading investments in AI/ML, blockchain, and other emerging technologies to transform the way people think and work.

A Bit More About Aaron:
Aaron Harris has more than 25 years of high-tech engineering experience in business applications and software development strategies. From Sage Intacct's earliest days, Aaron has led the company's product vision and technology direction. A pioneer in cloud computing, Aaron helped Intacct build the world's first cloud architecture delivering on-demand financial applications. He regularly contributes to the development of best practices for cloud computing, service oriented architecture, platform as a service, and accounting and finance technology standards. Aaron holds a Master's degree in information systems and a Bachelor of Science in accounting from Brigham Young University.

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

• We are thrilled and privileged to have Aaron Harris who I mentioned as the global CTO of sage. Aaron is responsible for Sage’s technology and product vision. He is hands on leading the investments in artificial intelligence, machine learning, blockchain, and other emerging technologies to transform the way people think and work so their organizations can thrive. And that's the second time you've heard that already. So at least we're on the same page. Aaron holds a master's degree in Information Systems and a Bachelor of Science in accounting from Brigham Young University. Welcome to the Soul of Enterprise Aaron.

• Good to be on the same page. And I actually do really love that phrase. So it's very fun to be able to say it once a week when we do the show as a reminder, but just to let you know, you're only the third person from Sage other than me, obviously, to have appeared on the show. And we just surpassed our 300th episode. So it's like once every hundred episodes we have somebody from Sage on. I won't say that the other two are no longer with Sage. I won't say that.

• Well, I don't think it was a result of the show. So I think we're totally unclear on that. But hey, the last time I saw you was at the Sage Partner Summit in Orlando, and then all hell broke loose [COVID-19], right? How are you doing, personally?

• Yeah, that's great. Do you get more reading in or less reading? I get less reading in because I'm on fewer planes, so it's weird.

• Has American Airlines called and said, “Hey, we'd really like for you to come back at some point.”

• I hadn't planned to ask you this, but you mentioned COVID. I know that you have a fascination with data and as a data guy, what's your analysis from a data set standpoint about what's going on with COVID?

• Actually that's a perfect lead-in because I think that there's some things that we want to talk about that's related to that from an accounting standpoint. And as I mentioned, we last saw each other at the Partner Summit and you had been talking about the release of Sage Business Cloud. In fact, I re- watched your speech and you said put your cell phones away, this isn't out yet. But now it's out and you can talk about it. So why don’t you share with me at a high level, what is Sage Business Cloud and what are we doing with it?

• And interestingly enough, one of the things that you said is that identity is the new tendency for this. And it really all starts off with this notion of identity. And I thought that that was a really cool point. And we've got about two minutes before our break. So if you could just give us a snapshot of that notion of what is identity as the new tenancy mean, since it sounds like gobbledygook, but I think it's really important point.

• Yeah, really, as I said, a critically important point, and perhaps we'll get back to that. I know Ron is going to ask you about some stuff, him being an accountant. So we're going to jump to that in our next segment.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

• Welcome back everybody. We're talking with Aaron Harris Sage’s global CTO, and Aaron I watched your Summit presentation as a reference and I thought it was just a great talk; you made so many really good points. But before we get there, one of the first things you said was you’re alumni of Arthur Andersen, and you left before the ship sank. I just wanted to talk to you about your days there, did you end up at St. Charles? Or was that already closed by the time you got there?

• Excellent. What else did you learn from your days there because the Big Four—and I'm a recovering CPA, I started my career, just to give you an idea, at Peat Marwick Mitchell, so that's how you carbon date a CPA, you figure out how they refer to the big eight, big six, whatever—what did you learn there?

• So you left Arthur Anderson and then you went and founded Intacct, with some others, including somebody from AA, is that right?

• That's excellent. It had to be a heck of a journey, given when it was founded, right after the .com explosion.

• That's awesome. And then Sage purchases Intacct in 2017. Were they thinking of going public prior to that, was that part of a process?

• I also wanted to ask you what's the difference between working in a privately held company versus, now, a public company?

• Thanks for that great answer. You also, in your talk, used a couple phrases like the one that you discussed with Ed about identity. I wanted to ask you about what you called “the era of abundant computing.” What do you mean by that?

• I thought that was a great point as well. You also use the term “effortless elasticity.” I hate to do this to you, because we’ve only got about a minute, but explain effortless elasticity.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

• We are talking all things technology with Sage CTO Aaron Harris, and Aaron you'll appreciate this. I recently had a Facebook exchange with someone who used to work at one of our competitors in the low market. I won't say who, and the one thing that he said, he said, “Sage is on fire.” And then his first comment was right underneath it: “And I mean that in a good way.”

• And I think that that's largely due to some of the great stuff that you guys have been doing on the innovation side in the last three years. I wanted to pick up on something that you were talking about earlier. And that is through multi-tenancy and identity, what this allows to happen is that artificial intelligence can then learn from all customers and not just one customer. That's going to have a fantastic impact. And I’d really love for you to dig down on that a little bit.

• I heard a couple of years ago that UPS and FedEx both kind of have this side business selling their data in an anonymous way for all of the tracking things that are going on. And I imagine, I'm not saying that we should do this, Aaron, but data is the new oil in that sense, right, that this is a possibility that data in and of itself is so valuable. Sage could have some influence on that.

• And the next thing I want to talk a little bit about is, there's a fear, I think among a lot of people that AI is going to take away a lot of jobs. And in fact, another thing that somebody was talking about this week is don't use the automated machines at Target because they're taking away jobs. And the person who posted this, by the way, happened to be an accountant. And I said to her, “Well, I guess you don't use Excel. It's taken away a job.” But you really believe, as do Ron and I, that AI that with AI jobs will change, but it's really going to elevate humans. And I'd love for you to talk about that. Because I think that's such an important point.

• Yeah, Ron and I often say that we, as a species, humans are really good at figuring out new and better ways to serve one another. And that that's an incredible thing that we can do as human beings. I love the thing that you mentioned to me, I guess this was posters on the wall out in San Jose, “Robots lack social skills.” The last thing I wanted to quickly ask you about, I'm just gonna jump to this and perhaps give Ron a little more time. We I like to do this with some of our guests where we just play underrated and overrated. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you a quick list of five things we'll go through and you're just going to say whether you think they're underrated or overrated, and why, and if you want to add color, that's fine, so are ready? So the first one, DFW Airport underrated or overrated

• Yeah, well I think people who use DFW like we do as the hub love it. Those that have to fly through it, don't, and I'm sure you're aware this great saying, I think Kinky Friedman said it, “You can't get to Heaven or Hell in Texas without going through DFW.” Second, driverless cars, underrated or overrated?

• Okay, and I know you and I are both children of the 80s and I want to know, underrated or overrated: Dexys Midnight Runners’ “Come on, Eileen”?

• Okay, fair enough. This is a Texas reference: Shiner Bock beer, underrated or overrated?

• All right, last one, falls in Vermont, underrated or overrated?

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Aaron Harris, Sages CTO. Aaron, you talked about programmatic trust, which is the blockchain. The Economist called it “the trust machine.” Is this as revolutionary as we were led to believe?

• I think Ed recommend to you that you read George Gilder’s book Life After Google, and Gilder is my 40-year mentor. So I think everybody we know has to read his stuff. But he calls it the eighth layer of the internet, the trust and transactions layer. And he also agrees that it's revolutionary. And I want to ask you, if you agree with his assessment in Life After Google, that right now he laments the whole security aspect of the internet. He says, it's a bolt-on app, that instead needs to become part of the architecture. Do you think blockchain can serve that role and can finally get rid of all these passwords and the name of the first street you lived on, and all these dumb questions?

• What do you think about the EU’s GDPR regulation? Is that the path we should follow?

• You've got an interesting perch on the accounting profession. And I wanted your take on what do you see as the biggest threats and opportunities facing the profession?

• Amen, that's fantastic. What are you reading right now?

• Oh, that's a fantastic book [Lonesome Dove]. One of my favorites.

• I'll recommend one to you that I'm in the middle of right now and it's Humanocracy by Gary Hamel. And given what you were saying about the difference between working for a public versus a private company, it's a screed against bureaucracy. But I really like Gary Hamel. I think he's a great management thinker. And I'm just finding it very, very enjoyable.

• I think you'll enjoy it. Who are your mentors? And why? [I'm stealing this question from Ed. He always asks this, but I'll ask it to you].

• Well, unfortunately Aaron, we're at the end of our time, but thank you so much. It's been an honor to have you on, and Ed, what's on store for next week?

Ed: Next week, Ron, we welcome to the show Ronald Bailey.

Ron: Fantastic. All right, I'll see you in 167 hours.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 106 — “Boycotts (huh) and Bordeaux” — features a question from super fan and listener, Donna:

Hey, Ron & Ed! I'm a longtime super fan and Patreon subscriber. I've listened to all of the 304+ episodes and the bonus episodes and I love them! I have a question that I'd love to hear your thoughts on. I am a CPA and our firm works with two very specific niche markets. The majority of our relationships with prospects are built at their industry conventions/trade shows each year. Of course, those are all canceled for this year and as a vendor member of these organizations, they want us to exhibit in the virtual convention. I have tried this for one and I see the value in teaching a class and building credibility, but the normal part of building relationships is a complete bust on the virtual side. 

Any ideas of other ways to build relationships or get around this?

Episode #305: Strategic Positioning

Inspired by our VeraSage Colleague, and former guest on The Soul of Enterprise, Tim Williams, join Ed and Ron for a wide-ranging discussion on strategic positioning. Your organization NEEDS to be able to answer these questions:

• Is your company distinguished by a set of unique services and capabilities?

• Do you focus on what you do best and form strategic alliances for the rest?

• Do you have a clear set of criteria for identifying prospective customers based on your positioning?

• Do your people have a clear understanding of your positioning strategy?

• Does your positioning strategy provide differentiated value in the eyes of the customer?

• Does it allow you to create and capture more value through superior pricing?

Where Are The Show Notes?!!?

We have some fantastic show notes for you this week. Why? The presentation that you can find in this link follows the show and goes into great detail about Ron and Ed’s discussion. While you are listening to the show, you can reference Tim Williams Strategy Box along with extended questions on the Who, What, How, and Why.

One more time, click here for extended show notes in presentation format and remember: No box means no strategy!

Resources We Referenced During the Show

• Positioning for Professionals, by Tim Williams

• The Soul of Enterprise Episode #120: Strategic Planning: Efficient, Effective, Neither?

• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy, by Richard Rumelt

• A Clip from Airplane! “That’s just what they’ll be expecting us to do”

• VeraSage G. Robert Newhart Non-value-added Fellow Greg Kyte’s review of Simon Sinek’s book, Start With Why

• What It Takes: Seven Secrets of Success from the World’s Greatest Professional Firms

• VeraSage Senior Fellow Paul O’Byrne in 2007 on The Specialist vs. The Generalist

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 105 - “Rants on California, Texas, and the Post Office” — features conversations on several articles including:

• Twitter scientist who died of COVID-19 turned out to be a hoax 

• A TikTok Ban Is Overdue 

• Why Uber and Lyft Are about to Shut down All Operations in California 

• Why George Orwell's Warning on 'Self-Censorship' Is More Relevant Than Ever 

Episode #304: Interview with Marian Tupy

Marian L. Tupy is the editor of HumanProgress.org, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity and co-author of The Simon Project. He specializes in globalization and global well-being, and politics and economics of Europe and Southern Africa. His articles were published in the Financial Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, Newsweek, The U.K. Spectator, Foreign Policy and various other outlets both in the United States and overseas. He appeared on BBC, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, FOX News, FOX Business and other channels. Tupy received his BA in international relations and classics from the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa, and his PhD in international relations from the University of St. Andrews in Great Britain. He is the co-author of an upcoming book, Ten Global Trends that Every Smart Person Needs to Know: And Many Other Trends You Will Find Interesting.

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

• I have heard you interviewed a number of times on Cato Events, but I’ve never heard you talk about your story. You grew up in South Africa and made your way to the States? Give us the biography and journey of Marian Tupy.

• I didn’t realize that your parents were both medical doctors, so that gives you another insight on the whole COVID-19 situation. I trust you and yours have fared well with regard to that?

• I wanted to ask you about an article that appeared in National Review entitled “COVID-19 Should Make Us Grateful for Technology,” would it be correct to say that without the extraordinary world that largely capitalism has provided us, there would be no such things as lockdowns since, quite frankly, we couldn’t afford it?

• As you point out in that article, there are four main things, and we might be able to touch on a couple of them. First, you talk about healthcare, you mentioned that it took 3,296 years to develop a treatment for smallpox, polio over 3,000 years, cholera over 2,000 years, measles 1,500 years, rubella 350 years, but then you get down to where we are today, AIDS 15 years, Ebola only 5 years until the vaccine. It’s really just amazing.]

• Ron and I are big fans of Russ Robert’s podcast, EconTalk, and he’s alluded to a couple of times on his show that what we’re going to see as a result of COVID-19 it’s really glorious. He’s predicting that it’s going to amazing the technologies that grow out of this, even if they aren’t directly related to COVID.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

• Marian I’ve been reading some of your blog posts at Humanprogress.org site, which are fantastic, and one that really hit me was “Are We Really Poorer Than Our Parents,” November 3, 2018. You point out that  Prosperity can be measured by personal income or wealth. But it can also be measured by falling prices. And before we get into your Time Prices and the Simon Index, I wanted to ask you a broader question. I remember reading Nicholas Eberstadt—I know he’s at another think tank—he said that if you measured the poverty rate by consumption, rather than income, it would be 2-4%.

• You wrote another article “No, Americans Are Not Worse Off Today Than They Were in the 1970s,” FEE, July 9, 2019. You quoted someone who repeated the conventional wisdom that wages have stagnated since 1977 at $34,000. This is pure nonsense. Then you mentioned your Time Price calculations. Can you explain that and how it weaves into the standard of living?

• I think you give the example of a blue collar worker throwing a Thanksgiving dinner, and the price of that has dropped dramatically.

• In the article, you compared items from the Sears catalog in 1979 to Walmart in 2019, and the time price declined, on average, by 72%. That’s massive.

• And just one clarification. We teach pricing and discuss the labor theory of value vs. the subjective theory of value. Your time prices are not based on the labor theory of value. You’re using time as a denominator, as a constraint. It has nothing to do with value, right?

• The first time I was exposed to time prices it was in one of Matt Ridley’s books where he talked about [William D.] Nordhaus’s study on how much electricity used to cost and what we spend on it now in terms of labor, it’s a dramatic example. Once your head gets around this idea, it alters your worldview.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

• Marian, before we get to your book, perhaps has a setup even, I just want to finish off the conversation on the National Review article. This notion that you bring up called “sociality,” defined as the tendency to associate in, or form, social groups. I think this is one of the big things that has been completely missed, and I don’t see much of it talked about it in society today. We are really suffering a dearth of social capital because of what’s happening with COVID. And I don’t think we will ever be able to measure what we’ve lost because of that.

• I do want to get to your new book, due out at the end of August, the title is Ten Global Trends that Every Smart Person Needs to Know: And Many Other Trends You Will Find Interesting. Let’s start with population. The myth that we have a population problem. I think it was 1798 that the essay on principle of population, known as the Malthusian trap, the increases in the nation’s population would outstrip the production of the food supply. He was kind of right at the time, wasn’t he? But since he’s been proven wrong?

• Is population growth one of the myths in the new book?

• I already have the book on order and I’m looking forward to reading it. We hope to have Ronald Bailey on, your coauthor, after it’s published.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• Marian, I know you specialize in globalization and global well-being, and I just wanted to ask you: What did you think of Brexit?

• Ed and I are big believers in Brexit; we called it Brexit 2.0, because we already did 1.0 in the 1770s.

• Taxation with representation, we have learned, is much more expensive than taxation without representation.

• You wrote “Is This Goodbye for Hong Kong,” June 9, 2020. We’ve been watching with a saddened heart everything going on in Hong Kong. We’re big fans of Jimmy Lai. What can we do about this situation, if anything, about this Marian?

• It was heart-warming to see Boris Johnson say he was going to allow Hong Kong citizens to become UK citizens, and I think Australia’s Prime Minister said that, and I hope we do that here in the States. You also pointed out something else in your Hong Kong article and I have to ask you about this. You got to meet Sir John Cowperthwaite [HK Financial Secretary,1961-1971]. Tell us about that, wow!

• Thank you for that Marian. This has been a treat to have you on, good luck with the book when it comes out, we’ll be the first to read it. Thank you for coming on The Soul of Enterprise.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus Episode 104 — “Hong Kong, C-19, and a Member” — features conversations on several articles including:

• 4 Common Capitalism Myths Debunked 

• Digital Revenue Exceeds Print for 1st Time for New York Times Company 

• Video Games & Subscriptions: A Conversation with Xbox’s Sarah Bond 

• Dad who lost his penis to horrific blood infection becomes first man in the world to have a new one built on his arm 

• Nashville Promised a Crackdown on Mask-Defying Partiers. Then They Arrested a Homeless Man with a Drug and Drinking Problem 

Episode #303: Value Pricing 1.0 vs. Value Pricing 2.0

Ed and Ron discussed an email Ron received from listener Byron Johnson, a CPA in Canada. This episode explores the many differences in the business model of Value Pricing vs. the subscription business model. They are entirely different, and time will tell how well the professions adopt this new model.

Hi Ron,

You were kind enough to share some resources with me 2-3 years ago after I left a firm and started my own firm. I’ve read your Implementing Value Pricing book and I’m a regular listener to TSOE (yes, the Greg Kyte version). I am a fan. Thank you for all of that.

I’ve been wrestling with a thought and wanted to reach out to see if you might have a brief comment. I’ve heard you refer to subscription pricing as VP 2.0 on several occasions. I’ve also heard you indicate a shift (at least I think it’s a shift) from pricing the customer to pricing the portfolio. I’m just really trying to figure out and implement this whole pricing thing better.

It just struck me recently that I don’t think I would like to be value-priced in the true sense of the term. An anecdote to illustrate: My wife and I are currently considering some significant renovations on our home, and we’ve solicited a couple of quotes to do so. Now, I have no objection to receiving quotes that vary. We may have more confidence in a contractor with a higher quote than one with a lower quote. It then becomes our task to evaluate at what point the higher quote becomes too expensive relative to the value received. No harm, no foul with differences there.

But if I knew that the contractor I like (the higher priced one), increased the price of my quote over the quote he gave my neighbor for doing exactly the same job (hypothetically) just because he perceived I valued it more or I had more resources, or whatever, I think I would be royally ticked. Shouldn’t the price he is willing to do the exact same thing for two parties be exactly the same, and then it becomes the duty of those parties to determine if they value it or not and subsequently pay that price or not? 

It just strikes me that the more we deliver a similar service, the more that price should be consistent across customers. Maybe that is what you are getting at when you talk about pricing the portfolio on a subscription basis? Maybe there should be a little more consistency knowing that you are going to win on some and loose on others, but that overall the portfolio is good.

It is almost like with subscription pricing there is a general pricing grid that, yes, has options, but it is more or less the same options for homogenous clients. Maybe that is appealing because of its simplicity.

My partner and I are just realizing how much mental energy we are exerting pricing new clients instead of simply having a “price list” that we go to without thinking (too much) about it. 

The interviews you’ve had with Dr. Paul Thomas have resonated with the simplicity that I refer to here. Each individual pays a certain price. No playing favorites. Some will require more attention than others. Because of this, they will lose money on some.

It has just struck me with this realization that customers/clients don’t want to be value-priced and they would likely object to it if they knew they were. I think I’ve made some mistakes pricing some prospects higher than others (for essentially the same work) and then not converting those prospects to clients.

Anyway, this may be mostly a jumbled ramble. If you care to share any thoughts, I’d be most appreciative.

Thanks,
Byron A. Johnson, MSc, CPA
Canada

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus Episode 103, in which Ed tries to convince Ron to leave California, yet again, features conversations on several articles including:

• Celebrities (Besides Joe Rogan) Who Said Goodbye to California 

Episode #302: A More Beautiful Question with Questionologist Warren Berger

Ed and Ron were joined by Warren Berger, author of A More Beautiful Question and The Book of Beautiful Questions. Warren defines himself as a questionologist. To him, any question that causes people to shift their thinking is a beautiful one. They steer you in the right direction at critical moments when you’re trying to decide on something; create something; connect with other people; and be a good and effective leader.

First, a bit more about Warren Berger…
Warren Berger has studied hundreds of the world’s foremost innovators, entrepreneurs, and creative thinkers to learn how they ask questions, generate original ideas, and solve problems. His writing and research appears regularly in Fast Company and Harvard Business Review. He is the author of the internationally acclaimed Glimmer—named one of Businessweek’s Best Innovation and Design Books of the Year—and the bestsellers A More Beautiful Question, and The Book of Beautiful Questions.  He lives in New York.

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

• Warren, first I have to tell you that developing questions for a questionologist was intimidating. The first question I have for you is actually a directive statement: tell me how you became a questionologist.

• You started out as a journalist. What do you think the state of journalism today is with regard to questions?

• Having watched a little of the hearings with the tech companies being pulled before Congress yet again. These Congressman could use some work with you about asking questions. They don’t seem to ask many questions, rather they just make statements.

• Even questions that are designed to intimidate. I think back on “Are you for us or against us?”

• There’s one particular type of question that I find intriguing, and I do hear it from politicians relatively often, and consultants—I’m a consultant by trade, which is how I got into this whole question thing—when someone asks “Can I be honest with you?” Meaning everything I said to you previously…

• How much of being a good questioner is also being a good listener?

• One of the first books I read about questions was Mahan Khalsa’s great book called Let’s Get Real or Let’s Not Play. But the original book that that was based on and he gave to me as a gift, was called Asking Effective Questions. One of things he says, and he’s doing this in the business sales context, he was a big believer in not taking notes or writing down what the person is saying. Instead, just intently focus on listening to them, and asking permission to take a note on that? The makes sure you remain fully engaged with them.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

• We’re here with Warren Berger, author of A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Ideas, which I read the following year, and it was on my favorite books of the year. We even used your Q-Force exercise in some groups, and it was just really powerful. What is a Beautiful Question?

• You give many examples in the book of businesses that basically were inspired by a question. Was it Edward Land of Polaroid who was taking pictures of his daughter?

• You anticipated my next question. You wrote that a child asks about forty thousand questions between the ages of two and five. It dwindles down after that. Of course,  teenagers don’t ask questions because they have all the answers. Why do you  think that is, Warren? Why do we drum out questions, is it the school system?

• One of the things you point out that I just love is that a beautiful question can come from the dumbest kid in the room.

• Another thing that really came home from the Q-Force exercise, getting groups to think in terms of questions, everyone recognizes a great question. It’s really easy to separate the great ones from the not so great ones. They inspire you. You want to answer the question.

• We’re big fans of Richard Feynman, and he said: "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." Somewhere in the book, you pose the thought that questions are becoming more valuable than answers? Make that case for that, which I find convincing.

• As you wrote in your follow-up book, The Book of Beautiful Questions, “The best questions, the beautiful ones, cannot be answered by Google They require a different kind of search.”

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

• Longshoreman turned philosopher Eric Hoffer said (in his book Reflections on the Human Condition): “Language was invented to ask questions. Answers may be given by grunts and gestures, but questions must be spoken. Humanness came of age when man asked the first question. Social stagnation results not from a lack of answers but from the absence of the impulse to ask questions.” Warren, what are your thoughts on Mr. Hoffer’s statement?

• I do think Hoffer nailed that idea of social stagnation, it’s not from a lack of answers. Politicians on both sides of the aisle all have answers but none of them ask new questions. I think that’s really the problem we are experiencing right now.

• Ron mentioned Richard Feynman, and he said he was asked by his mom whenever he got home from school, “What questions did you ask today?” [It was actually Isidor Rabi, Nobel prize winner and discoverer of nuclear magnetic resonance that makes MRIs possible].

• I direct my kids, when we did go to school, on their way out the door my advice to them was ask good questions today.

• Sadly, in business, there’s this saying “there’s no such thing as a bad question,” and then if you ask one, the response is, “Well, that’s stupid.”

• I want to bounce some great questions that I’ve collected in my consulting career. I want to ask you about them. Ask: “Would it be appropriate for me to ask you questions at this time?”

• I’m replacing advice with curiosity with that question. This is one I recently added to my repertoire: “If you had any doubts about me, what would they be?”

• The use of the word “if” at the beginning puts a conditional on it so it’s less intimidating. I’ve got two more for you. If I could nail a job interview to one question to decide whether or not to hire somebody: “Who is a hero of yours and why?”

• Here’s the last one, which I stole from Peter Block—who I think stole it from someone else—and it’s what he calls The Mother of All Questions (MOAQ): “What is the question that if you had the answer would you make you free?” Block says it’s an unanswerable question, it can only be pondered, which is why it’s a great question.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

• I’d like to jump to your follow-up book, The Book of Beautiful Questions: The Powerful Questions That Will Help You Decide, Create, Connect, and Lead that came out in 2018. I love that  Elie Wiesel line you cite, American-Romanian writer and Holocaust survivor once observed: “People are united by questions. It is the answers that divide them.” That’s profound.

• You also discuss, and I love this metaphor, the difference between a soldier and a scout. What is that difference?

• I was recently asked about business books. I’ve written a few, you have. The question was Will business books survive? My answer was yes because people gravitate toward easy answers. They don’t want to engage in deep thinking, they just want to be told “how to” do it.

• I want to ask you the Peter Thiel question, which I read in his book Zero to One: What is something you believe Warren that nearly no one agrees with you on?

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus Episode 103, in which Ed tries to convince Ron to leave California, yet again, features conversations on several articles including:

• Celebrities (Besides Joe Rogan) Who Said Goodbye to California 

Episode #301: The Economy and COVID-19: Recovery or Relapse?

Will there be an effective COVID-19 vaccine by the end of the year? Will schools reopen? Will there be another expansion of government subsidies? As COVID cases increase, will more states lockdown again? Join Ed and Ron for all these questions and more, on our update on COVID-19 and the economy.

Segment One Topics

Recovery or relapse? Neither of us really know, nor does anyone else.

Will and when the economy return to normal? Rabbi Daniel Lapin points out in a recent Thought Tool, that there is no word in Hebrew for “normal.” Yes, eventually the economy will rebound, but Lapin thinks a better question is: “When shall we live our lives to the fullest?”

Men lose their mind in herds but recover them only one by one.

Four assumptions about COVID-19, from National Review’s Jim Geraghty, July 16, 2020:

1. COVID in the USA is more contagious (ten times more) than the strain initially found in Asia.

2. The death rate is extremely low, but with millions infected that still translates into a horrific loss of life.

3. A vaccine is coming as fast as anyone could hope for.

4. Our battle with this virus will last at least till the end of this year, and very well for several more years.

And, as The Economist notes, America has gained nearly 30 new billionaires since March. The top five are thought to be 26% richer collectively than before COVID-19.

Segment Two Topics

Operation Warp Speed (OWS): OWS is a partnership among components of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD). OWS engages with private firms and other federal agencies, including the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Energy, and the Department of Veterans Affairs. It will coordinate existing HHS-wide efforts, including the NIH’s Accelerating COVID-19 Therapeutic Interventions and Vaccines (ACTIV) partnership, NIH’s Rapid Acceleration of Diagnostics (RADx) initiative, and work by BARDA.

$3 billion has been spent on two vaccines. Pfizer has rejected cash from OWS, saying the government just slows the firm down. The Economist reports in “Moonshot,” July 4, 2020, that 180 vaccines are in development. Making a dose of the vaccine costs about as much as a cup of coffee.

“Oxford University Coronavirus Vaccine Trial Produces Strong Immune Response,” National Review, Mairead Mcardle, July 2020.

“The people with hidden immunity against Covid-19,” BBC July 19, 2020, Zaria Gorvett.

Sir Isaac Newton had it right when trying to cure the bubonic plague. The answer? Toad vomit. From smithsoinianmag.com, June 5, 2020, by Alex Fox.

Segment Three Topics

The most silly story Ed has read is from Reuters out of South Korea: “People are more likely to contract COVID-19 at home, study finds,” July 21, 2020.

David Bahnsen at Dividend Cafe has a podcast, COVID and Markets, that reports daily on the pandemic and the economy. Ron listened to July 22 and 23 episodes, and one theory posited is that New York City, Sweden, and Delhi, India are approaching herd immunity.

The five states where new cases are rising most rapidly: Mississippi, Alaska, Nevada, Louisiana, and Idaho.

“Retail Subscriptions Thrive During COVID-19,” Forbes, Kaleigh Moore, July 15, 2020. It reports that one in five consumers have purchased a subscription during the pandemic.

If we don't start to see inflation then Ron and Ed think we need to reconsider the theory of inflation—specifically, the Quantity Theory of Money.

Segment Four Topics

Should we reopen the schools? NPR OnPoint did an interesting show on this topic, speaking with pediatricians from around the world. Also, The Economist says “Let them learn,” arguing that keeping schools closed will do more harm than good.

“Florida Teachers Unions Sues to Stop School Openings amid Virus Surge,” National Review, Brittany Bernstein, July 21, 2020.

Why is there a shortage of coins in the economy? “COVID’s Latest Trick: Making Coins Disappear,” FEE, July 20, 2020.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #300: Celebrating 300 — Ron and Ed are interviewed by Matt Burgess

Join us as we celebrate the 300th episode of The Soul of Enterprise. Ron and Ed had the tables turned on them and were interviewed by Matthew Burgess, a previous Guest on the show. Matthew promised and delivered on some fun conversation and insights into the workings of the show. A BIG THANK YOU to YOU, our audience, who has made this all possible.

But first…a bit more about Matthew Burgess
Matthew Burgess founded specialist timeless Australian law firm View in 2014 (see www.viewlegal.com.au). For the previous 17 years, he was a lawyer and partner of one of Australia’s leading independent law firms and in 2002 was one of the firm’s youngest ever partner appointments. In part leveraging off the skills gained from advising a range of successful businesses, Matthew Burgess has been the catalyst in developing a number of innovative legal solutions; including establishing what is widely regarded as Australia’s first virtual law firm. Matthew last filled in a timesheet in 2013, and has been a passionate and vocal advocate for professional service firms to abandon the heritage inputs based time billing business model. In 2017, Matthew’s vision of an integrated fintech and legal solution based on membership pricing (ie subscription) was realised with the joint venture between NowInfinity (see: www.nowinfinity.com.au) and View Legal.

So what does episode 300 look like?
Given that the format was a bit different for this show, we found ourselves talking about a lot of the past episodes. This list is a GREAT resource if you are new to the show or would like to catch up on some of the best shows throughout the years.

Segment One Shows

• Episode #6 - Interview with Distinguished Professor of Economics, Deirdre McCloskey

• Episode #293: Second Interview with Professor Deirdre McCloskey

• Episode #25 - Interview with Dr. Thomas Sowell

• Episode #11 - Interview with Howard Hansen and Steven Geske

• Episode #168: Interview with Howard Hansen on Healing Leadership

• Episode #299: Healing Leadership 2020 — Interview with Howard Hansen

• Episode #60 - Interview with George Gilder

• Episode #207: Interview with George Gilder

• Episode #257: Third Interview with George Gilder

• Episode #106: Interview with Professor Steven Landsburg

• Episode #117: Interview with David Friedman, Anarchist, Anachronist, Economist

Segment Two Shows

• Episode #183: Interview with Peter Block

• Episode #73: Business Lessons from A Christmas Carol

• Episode #213: Interview with Russ Roberts

• Episode #20 - Interview with Rabbi Daniel Lapin

• Episode #86 - Second Interview with Rabbi Daniel Lapin

• Episode #16 - Interview with Father Robert Sirico

• Episode #134: Second Interview with Father Robert Sirico

• Episode #226: A Priest and a Rabbi...

• Episode #112: Interview with Reginald Tomas Lee

• Episode #200: Interview with Reginald Lee

• Episode #96 - Interview with Doug Sleeter

• Episode #99 - Interview with Doug Sleeter, Part II

• Episode #166: Interview with Chris “Elroy” Stricklin, Colonel (Ret), USAF

• Episode #214: Interview with Chris “Elroy” Stricklin, Colonel (Ret), USAF

• Episode #262: Survivor’s Obligation — Interview with Chris Stricklin

• Episode #269 — The Subscription Model in Medicine

• Episode #286: Talking Coronavirus with Dr. Paul Thomas

• Episode #298 - Third interview with Dr. Paul Thomas

Segment Three Shows

• Episode #289: The War on Cancer — Interview with Dr. Azra Raza

• Episode #160: Interview with Magatte Wade

• Episode #271: Interview with Dr. Keith Smith, Co-Founder, The Surgery Center of Oklahoma

• Episode #192: Interview with Mary Ruwart

• Episode #9 - Interview with Rory Sutherland

• Episode #267: The REALLY REAL Second Interview with Rory Sutherland

• Episode #270: Communist Humor

• Episode #64 - Famous Last Words

• Episode #164: Antitrust Law and Price Signaling

• Episode #204: Interview with John Stossel

• Episode #240: Interview with Economist Tyler Cowen

Segment Four Questions

• Episode #68 - Proper Project Management

• Episode #79 - Project Management: Proper project initiation

• Episode #194: Project Management - Execution

• Episode #44 - Public Choice Theory

• Episode #26 - Interview with Adam Davidson

• Episode #291: The Passion Economy — Adam Davidson

• Episode #22 - Scroogenomics: Why You Shouldn’t Buy Presents for the Holidays

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #299: Healing Leadership 2020 — Interview with Howard Hansen

Ed and Ron are thrilled to bring back Howard Hansen, coauthor of the groundbreaking book Healing Leadership - A Survival Guide for the Enlightened Leader. Here is a brief summary of what Healing Leadership is all about: "We see leadership as primarily an emotional process, rather than a strategic one. It is about courage and being oneself, rather than strategies and techniques to change someone. It is being the one who says what he or she sees ("The emperor has no clothes.") and letting people make their own choices accordingly. We call “bullshit” on traditional models of leadership and advocate for a rational approach to leadership that will not hinder meaningful change. Quite simply, the “Command and Conquer” style of leadership does not work, long term. What’s more, it ultimately proves to be toxic. Therefore, Healing Leadership is about giving up the irrational hope of trying to change others."

A bit more about Howard Hansen
“My travels through the world of work and leadership include roles in management and consulting. I've watched and participated in the stories I now tell. The stories reflect moments of joy, pain and truth. They offer insights into what works and doesn't work for leaders. Now, approaching my 40th year of practicing management, consulting and coaching, I have been struck by how unhealthy workplaces have become. My journey now focuses on helping these places to heal by helping heal the leaders who lead them.”

Segment One Questions

• Leadership as a concept needed to be healed, but also, if leadership is done well, it could be healing in and of itself – it could actually heal some of the harms that people come with and you guys profess that the best place that this could happen was inside businesses. Give us a few minutes overview of the concept of healing leadership.

• With the addition to the COVID-19 crisis, but also the situation that has happened with Black Lives Matter and the increase anxiety, have we lost? Should we just wrap this show up and go home?

• Howard, and it struck me as you're talking is that this is not a question of the notion of leaders themselves. This is that you're just hearing or we're just not hearing any conversation about the about the concept of leadership and the importance of it.

• Which gets back to my first question a moment ago, and your first observation, is this even worth talking about anymore?

• In a book called The Extraordinary Popular Delusions and Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackey in 1841, he says, “Men go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.

Segment Two Questions

• We had a conversation about Chronic vs Episodic Anxiety

Here is a graph that represents a person or system with a low level of chronic anxiety

View fullsize

Here is a graph that represents a person or system with a higher level of chronic anxiety

View fullsize

Segment Three Questions

• Howard, I wanted to see if we can talk perhaps a little bit about organizational gridlock, and then even move into what potentially people can do about this.

• I just think that the notion of anxious versus non anxious is worth exploring. Could you talk a little bit about that?

• Why don't we even hear the concept of mature vs immature anymore?

Segment Four Questions

• Listener David asks, “I'm interested to know if Howard has a perspective on whether remote working (whether COVID-19 related or not) is material to him as it impairs the ability of a workplace to deliver on meaningfulness? And if so, what can a conscientious employer do to maintain the possibility of workplace contributing to a sense of meaning.

• After answering the above question, Ed asked if Howard was comfortable revealing who that boss was in this context (referred to as the best boss Howard ever had)?

  • [Howard Hansen] Yes, it is Doug Burgum, the current governor of North Dakota.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode Reprise: Interview with economist Dan Mitchell

Dan Mitchell fights for more freedom and less government (which is purposefully redundant).

You can now use the link above to listen to our interview with Dan Mitchell (if reading this via email, then just visit TheSoulOfEnterprise.com). Originally aired as Episode #290, we ran this again during the (observed) 4th of July holiday here in the United States. Subscribe to The Soul of Enterprise in your podcast player of choice and never miss an episode again.

A Bit More About Dan Mitchell

Daniel J. Mitchell is a co-founder of the Center for Freedom and Prosperity and the Center for Freedom and Prosperity Foundation. He is one of the nation’s leading experts on tax reform and supply-side tax policy. In addition to tax policy, Dr. Mitchell is a trenchant observer of economic developments and an expert on Social Security privatization – particularly the fiscal policy impact of reform and what the US can learn from other nations that have created personal retirement accounts. Dr. Mitchell’s by-line can be found in such national publications as the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Investor’s Business Daily. He holds a Ph.D. in Economics from George Mason University and master’s and bachelor’s degrees in economics from the University of Georgia. Mitchell was a senior fellow with the Cato Institute and The Heritage Foundation, and an economist for Senator Bob Packwood and the Senate Finance Committee. 

Episode #298 - Third interview with Dr. Paul Thomas

In his previous appearances, Dr. Paul has shared his experiences with subscription based pricing and COVID-19. In this episode, we spend the balance of our time talking about his new book, Startup DPC: How To Start And Grow Your Direct Primary Care Practice.

From the Foreword: We all know that our current healthcare system is broken, especially for primary care doctors and their patients. Primary care physicians have to see more and more patients in less and less time in order to keep up with declining reimbursement from insurance companies. This leads to rushed office visits, missed opportunities for genuine connections between doctors and their patients, frustrated patients, and burned out doctors. But it doesn't have to be this way.

But first…a bit more about Dr. Paul Thomas
Dr. Paul Thomas is a board-certified family medicine physician practicing in Corktown Detroit. His practice is Plum Health DPC, a Direct Primary Care service that is the first of its kind in Detroit and Wayne County. His mission is to deliver affordable, accessible health care services in Detroit and beyond. He has been featured on WDIV-TV Channel 4, WXYZ Channel 7, Crain's Detroit Business and CBS Radio. He has been a speaker at TEDxDetroit. He is a graduate of Wayne State University School of Medicine and now a Clinical Assistant Professor. Finally, he is an author of the book Direct Primary Care: The Cure for Our Broken Healthcare System.

Segment One Questions

• We had you back Episode 286 right as the Coronavirus was just starting to break loose. Let's quick talk about that to get that out of the way so we can move on to the more important things which is your book, what's going on in your neck of the woods with Corona?

• How about your practice, though? Just your practice is good from that perspective. You haven't had too many people come down?

• Your book, released in May is, Startup DPC, how to start and grow your direct primary care practice. How's the book doing?

• What is the difference between direct primary care and concierge medicine?

• One of the questions that we get on a frequent basis is one that you get, which is, what about the hybrid model where you're taking insurance and trying to do direct primary care you recommend against that, don't you?

• One of the things that you talked about at the beginning of the book is that electronic medical records were billing tool, not clinical care tools. And I'd really love for you to explain that.

Segment Two Questions

• I wanted to talk with you a little bit about starting from scratch versus converting your practice now you started your practice from scratch?

• Talk about if you're mid-career, can you start from scratch? Or can you convert? Which one would you lean towards?

• You say that one of the more common criticisms is, “abandoning patients who are not in your practice, and that they'll people will say to you that if every primary care physician became a direct primary care doctor, there would be a shortage.” Do you believe that to be true? And if so, why or why not?

• Yeah. Well, you write that one of the greatest lessons that you've learned as a maxim, “It's not the decisions. It's the decisiveness.” I really love that. I'd like to expand on that for me,

• So I want to ask you something on a very personal note, but you write this in the book that you had to get over your “personal discomfort with money.” Why talk about that struggle? I'm really interested in that that part of your life.

Segment Three Questions

• How did you come up with your pricing model?

• Did you consider a family plan?

• And you haven't had a price increase as of yet, correct?

• And while we're on the subject of pricing, one of the things that you do talk about also is whether or not you should charge an enrollment fee. What are your thoughts on that?

• How's your churn rate?

• Companies contracting with you for it for a group of people, who does that work?

• Talk about Mapper.DPCfrontier.com. Is that your site or is that just a site that you are aware of?

Segment Four Questions

• I want to share this great quote with that you said that a marketing specialist once told you, “If your website sucks, you suck.”

• And you are, as am I, a big fan of Gary Vee Gary Vaynerchuk of VaynerMedia and I want you to expound on his great quote “Document don't create.”

• Do you have you have a newsletter I think that you send out to folks Is that for your practice, but it is and but also for your consulting practice as well?

• And you quote, Benjamin Foley, who said, “Building a personal brand is all the rage right now, personal brands have always been around, they just used to be referred to as a different word, character.” Talk a little bit about that.

• This direct primary care business is all about developing trusting relationships between doctors and their patients, wrap up on that point.

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #297: Blockchain Update: Interview with Ron Quaranta and Sean Stein Smith

"We will know the blockchain has really made it when we stop talking about blockchain." So said Ron Quaranta, founder of the Wall Street Block Chain Alliance, during his last appearance on The Soul of Enterprise.

This time Ron was joined by Sean Stein Smith, professor at Lehman College, to share their insights into the latest news and use cases of the blockchain. Sadly, Ron Baker is working through a medical situation and was unable to be on the show.

But first…a bit more about Sean Stein Smith
Dr. Stein Smith is an Assistant Professor in the Business and Economics department. Before transitioning to academia full time, beginning with his appointment to a faculty position at Rutgers University, he worked in several corporate financial planning and accounting roles in both the for-profit and non-profit sectors. Dr. Stein Smith is actively engaged in the accounting community, having been awarded the NJCPA 30 under 30 in 2015, the Institute of Management Accountants Young Professional of the Year Award in 2016, and currently serves on the Fairleigh Dickinson University Alumni Association Board of Governors. Sean is also a member of the 2017 Class of the AICPA Leadership Academy.

Also, here is a bit more about Ron Quaranta
Ron possesses almost three decades of experience in the global financial services and technology industries. He currently serves as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance, the world’s leading non-profit trade association promoting the comprehensive adoption of blockchain technology and cryptoassets across global financial markets. Prior to this, Ron served as CEO of DerivaTrust Technologies, a pioneering software and technology firm for financial market participants. Ron is the editor and contributing author of the book “Blockchain in Financial Markets and Beyond: Challenges and Applications”, published Risk Books, as well as contributor to “Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Regulation 2019”, published by Global Legal Insights.

Segment One Questions

• To Ron Q: You were last on our show in October of 2018 which in COVID years is a decade ago, but even in crypto world, that's a long time. Talk a little bit of what what's happened for you specifically at the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance in the last 18 months.

• To Sean: You have spent a lot of time thinking about or concerned with blockchain as well as Bitcoin even and the integration into the accounting market space. Talk a little bit about your journey through that process.

• To both: But what are some of the newer use cases that we're seeing that you're working on right now?

• To both: What I'm hearing from both of you is that the possible small business use case will be that if you want to sell your product to these guys [big box retailers], you're going to be have to be on a system capable of doing that [using their blockchain]. And whether that's appified on their iPhone, or whether that's an accounting system that ties into blockchain, that's going to be the place where that's going to connect. Did I get that about right?

Segment Two Questions

• To Sean: You just were completed, I believe last summer, a fellowship with AIER up in Massachusetts and would love to hear the about the connections that you made when you were up there last summer.

• To Sean: Did you get a chance to talk with one of our favorite people on the planet here at The Soul of Enterprise George Gilder?

• To Sean: I attended the Acton Institute's online on Acton University this week, and George Gilder was one of the speakers there. He thinks people are crazy and nuts about the privacy issues as they exist today. He just dismisses it as a total non issue because he truly believes that the blockchain is going to replace the internet as it is right now with an internet where security and individuality is baked into the system. Do you think that George has that right?

• To Ron Q: What are your thoughts on that security and the blockchain being an answer to some of the security holes that we see now?

Segment Three Questions

• To Ron Q: What if you connect via blockchain, your 23andme result, the DNA ,the essence of who you are in some kind of a blockchain technology and that goes with your profile, not only to the first doctor, but to all doctors [on your case].

• To Sean: The [killer] application from an accounting perspective might be something more along the lines of preventing identity theft or income tax filing, or even perhaps voting. What about thoughts on that?

• To Ron Q: When you were on last with Eric Assgeirson [of CPA.com], we talked about the interplay and interchange between private blockchains and public blockchains. And how we saw that that might be something that emerges. Have you started to see that at the at the Wall Street level?

• To Ron Q: How about with respect to COVID-19 and or any other future pandemic or disease that comes down the pike and using blockchain for contact tracing?

Segment Four Questions

• To both: I want to talk to you a little bit more about the most famous use case and that is Bitcoin. Using the date of Ron's last appearance it was just after the Bitcoin Cash split when Bitcoin Cash split it was about 10% of the price of current of what Bitcoin was at. Bitcoin was at $3,300 and Bitcoin cash was at $330, that's a 10% ratio. Well, I checked today and Bitcoin Cash is now 2.5% of the value with Bitcoin being at $9,333 versus $230 for Bitcoin Cash today. What's up with that?

• To both: Bitcoin is not classified by the government as a currency, it’s property, but I think we are headed for a time when there's good where there's going to be a challenge. I don't know if it's going to happen at the Supreme Court level, but, it's going to have to be dealt with and perhaps recognized to a certain extent as a currency.

• To both: I believe it was about a month ago, the Chinese government has released a fiat currency based on blockchain. And it's a major state trial of this with transactions flowing through, so is China ahead of us on this?

• To Ron Q: What do you think Facebook pulled back on that [Libra]?

• To both: What is BitCoin going to be priced at in one year, five years, and ten years from now?

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #296: Subscription Pricing at Summit CPA — Jody Grunden

We were thrilled to interview Jody Grunden, CEO and Co-Founder of Summit CPA. The firm adopted a subscription pricing model and we are eager to learn how he grew the firm from $600,000 in revenue in 2004 to $7,000,000 today.

But first…a bit more about Jody
Jody Grunden is the managing member of Summit CPA Group. Jody focuses his attentions primarily on Virtual CFO Services. Jody meets with business owners on a weekly basis to assist them with Cash Flow Management, Forecasting, Budgeting, Debt Restructuring, Cost Accounting, and Cutting Edge Tax Planning. He takes great pride in helping business owner strive in all economic conditions. He strongly believes that a well-run company will excel in both a good and bad economy. Jody is also the author of Digital Dollars and Cents. Jody graduated from Indiana University with a bachelor's degree in accounting. Jody has been happily married to his wife, April for over 25 years. April is an estate planning attorney for Grunden Law Offices where she concentrates her practice on estate planning, succession planning, and business formations. They have two children, Tyler and Lexi.

Here are Ed’s questions from the interview

• You have a fairly unique pricing model, a weekly subscription. But before we get to that, let’s talk about your background. How did you get to Summit CPA?

• For how long did you do timesheets? You started with them when you first started the firm?

• Other than timesheets and hourly billing, why did you want to change your business model?

• Talk to us about the time of transition from billing by the hour for about two years to fixed pricing? How did you change? Did you start with current customers, new customers, how did it happen?

• What was the secret sauce, the magic that helped you turn the corner?

• You mentioned you brought the pricing into equilibrium with what is valuable in the minds of the customers. What conversations did you have with your current customers as you were trying to help them make the transition. Was there pushback from them to the new pricing and just wanted to stay on the old method?

• I noticed on your website, you talk about offering flat-fee pricing, but it’s unique because it’s done on a weekly basis, as well as you offer them choices. Why weekly?

• You have three distinct categories: Transactional, Controller, and Virtual CFO, and priced as of June 12, 2020 at $750/week, $1,000/week, and $1,500/week. Talk to me about how you got to those prices for those three distinct levels?

• You also offer some bundled services on top of those levels, such as individual and business tax returns—listed as optional—and also paying bills, cash flow management, payroll that are a la carte. What’s the difference between optional and a la carte?

• Do you consider this to be more subscription-based pricing than, say, value pricing?

• Do you have a lot of customers who jump on and jump off after they get their mess cleaned up?

• You also mentioned that you teach what you call “profit-focused accounting.” Talk to me about that.

• Let’s discuss marketing. You have a great website, it’s really well organized. You have a podcast, a blog. Talk to me about how you use that as an integrated marketing approach to get new customers.

• One of the things most intriguing on your website is that you’ve created an accountant community, The CFO Community, for CFOs as well as firm owners. Give us a little run down on that?

• If you were to give one or two pieces of advice to someone who has an accounting firm right now and is thinking of going to a new model, either going virtual or to a subscription model, what would it be?

• If you are talking to a recent graduate who has their degree in accounting, and is interested in doing this, would you recommend they go right into it, or should they spend some time doing pain work with a regular CPA?

---

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.